ABOUT OPEN MIKE

Mike Celizic

NBCSports.com contributor Mike Celizic provides his unique slant as he takes an offbeat look into the world of sports beyond the box scores.



Sonics won't survive in Oklahoma City

Posted: Friday, November 09, 2007 4:05 PM

The classic definition of chutzpah is the man who’s on trial for murdering both his parents and throws himself on the mercy of the court as an orphan. That one’s just been trumped by David Stern, the NBA commissioner who just told the City of Seattle that unless it digs into the taxpayers’ pockets to build the SuperSonics a new arena, Seattle will never have another NBA franchise.

As they say in New York, the noive o’ dat guy!

“I’d love to find a way to keep the team there,” the commish said at a press conference, “because if the team moves, there’s not going to be another team there, not in any conceivable future plan that I could envision, and that would be too bad.”

He sounds like a mob guy telling some schmuck with a gambling debt that if h doesn’t pay up, he’s going to find his family floating face-down in the Hudson River, and wouldn’t that be too bad?

There’s a word for this: extortion. Sports teams have been doing it for too long, but most cities and states are finally wising up to the reality that corporate welfare is a bad idea. New York initially tried to build a stadium for the Jets, but when the taxpayers went nuts, gave up on the idea, and the Jets joined the Giants in paying for a new stadium themselves. The Mets and Yankees wanted the City of New York to pay for their new digs; when they were rejected, they decided to build their own.

This can be taken as an indication that the teams can afford the price, they’d just rather someone else pay. This is an understandable view. I’d like somebody else to pay for my house, too, and if I could convince the local town council to come up with the cash so I don’t move to New Jersey, I’d do it.

This isn’t really any different. If Clay Bennett, who bought the Sonics last year for $350 million, wants a new arena, let him pay for it. It used to be the American way.

And it’s particularly repugnant to be holding up taxpayers now, when homeowners are defaulting on their mortgages at record rates, the economy is teetering on the brink of a recession, and the dollar is losing value faster than CitiCorp stock.

I don’t know a thing about Bennett other than that he knows Stern well and is from Oklahoma City, which is where he says he doesn’t want to move the Sonics all the while he’s working to move them there.

The state and city offered him a deal in which they’d front the money but had to get a return on it equal to what they’d get from a treasury note. But Bennett wouldn’t go for that because he expects something for nothing. And his buddy Stern is playing the heavy to try to see that he gets it.

I feel for basketball fans in Seattle, but the city will hardly be worse off for losing the team. Downtown and Pioneer Square will still be packed on weekend nights because there’s a lot going on. The Mariners and Seahawks, who already got their corporate welfare checks, aren’t going anywhere. If they feel desperate to fill the arena, look into a hockey team – it’s way more fun to watch live.

Besides, if the team leaves for Oklahoma City, as seems inevitable, think of the fun Seattle can have watching the franchise wither and die in that city, as if inevitable. If Seattle can’t support a team, how is Oklahoma City going to do it? And don’t tell me they successfully hosted the Hornets last year – that’s a novelty deal for one year. Wait until the team plays mediocre basketball at New York City ticket prices for a few years and then tell me what a great market it it.

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer has a good article on what’s involved in the arena deal that Bennett wants. You can read it here.

Finally, the Cato Institute has written an excellent analysis of why taxpayer-funded stadiums are a bad idea for everyone but the rich guy who’s getting the free building. Read that here.

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Comments

Dear Mike
I think the Sonics were wrong to hire P.J.Carlesimo as head coach. He is not a NBA type coach. He is a college type coach. Could you see him back on the college bench in 2 years?
the headline was supposed to be why OK City can't support a team--then you bash stern and the sonics new owner. where's the facts as to why a team won't succeed in OK?

isn't an argument supposed to be supported w/ a few facts?

i'm not sayin' you're wrong--just that u don't support the headline at all.

You're lumping MLB and the NFL with the NBA.  Revenues are higher for those sports. The average NBA team makes about 5 million dollars a year profit. The state DID NOT offer Bennett a deal in which they'd front the money but had to get a return higher than a treasury note, unless you're getting inside information not available to the general public.  You're confusing that data with I-91, in which Seattle has to receive profit equal to or greater than a treasure note IF they build a publicly funded venue.  All I've heard is a vague offer to remodel the Key again.

So, Bennett should take his $15 million a year loss and use it to build a fitting venue in Seattle?  He's already spent $350 million on a team the entire city will enjoy.  They don't want to build him an arena when they're already built one for the Mariners and Seahawks?  I guess they don't care as much about their NBA team.

Can the team survive in Oklahoma City?  The Hornets did well in Charlotte until Shinn ruined that relationship.  The Kings have done well, and SLC has done well.  Making the playoffs is what makes a team successful far more than the city in which the team is located, with the exception of the really big cities like New York and Houston.

Should the Sonics leave Seattle?  I think it would have been better to keep the Hornets in OKC, as New Orleans seems much more likely to fail, being smaller and already having one other professional team that is far better supported.  Maybe there's a method in Stern's madness and we'll all see how clever he's been in a couple of years, but I'd have moved the Hornets, not the Sonics.
Oklahoma City supported the Hornets for 2 seasons(not 1 as indicated in your column). You are probably unfamiliar with the Oil & Gas revenue in Oklahoma City, which houses 2 of the largest producers in the world (Chesapeake & Devon). Corporate sponsorship will be higher from Oklahoma City than other NBA cities, ask George Shinn as the Hornets are struggling to find ANY. The Sonics have been losing revenue for years and will continue to do so. The fan support has been lacking (check the last 5 years attendance figures). Failure in Oklahoma City is not a guarantee. Staying in Seattle and losing money IS.
Mike Celzik, the Hornets played in OKC for two years, not one, and were successful both years.
What a trash writer.  OKC proudly supported the Hornets, and will proudly support the 'Sonics if they come here.
It's Bennett's team.  If he wants to move it, so be it.  That's free enterprise at work.  Do you write the same nonsense every time a pro teams holds a city hostage for a new stadium?  Wake up and smell the coffee - this is how business is done.
By the way, I don't care if the 'Sonics come to OKC or not.
Let Oklahoma City have 'em - the NBA needs to fix its business model before we will even think of shelling out $$$s (like we did less than 10 years ago anyway to renovate their current building!).  The "game" has deteriorated so badly in the last few years it is hard to watch anyway.  No defense, superstar calls from officials, incredibly poor sportsmanship from the players and coaches, and the constant barrage of artificial hype inside the arena - that's not basketball.  How many NBA execs refer to the "product" these days?  They also seem to know it is not basketball either.

Shame on you, David Stern, for talking to a loyal customer for the last 40 years like that.  Get out of our town and take that duplicitous Bennett guy with you.  We just got an MLS franchise, we won't miss your overblown, overhyped "product".
Good article.
Glad to see the city and the state putting there foot down on these two con artist.
First bennett knew what he was getting by knowing the city and state were not interested in forking over another 500 million as well as Stern.
If he would of come out and said Hey"I'm buying this team to move to Okalahoma City and that it. But trying to lie and say he never did want to move. Come on. Some of his car dealer buddies must be the PR personnel in this outfit.
You had a good point on Oklahoma City being able to support this team. Does anybody know what the mean income is there compared to Seattle? I can't see your average Oklahoman shelling out 400-500 to watch a game when you medium income is 23, 500.
Go Seattle shove it to this guy and Stern.
<<There’s a word for this: extortion.>>
Thanks for calling it what it is! My Heart just bleeds for Clay Bennett. Go ahead, move the Sonics (and the Storm) to OK City, lets see how they do...
Willie from Tokyo writes.  

Please work on your grammar and do not sell Oklahomans short.  We love basketball and we would love to have the Sonics at the Ford Center.  This article should not be directed towards the Sonics.  It should be directed at the Women's team.  Can  Oklahoma support that team is the question.  I know we can support the men's team.  Believe it or not, Oklahoma has just as much affluence as any other state.  It is cheap to live in Oklahoma.   Despite what you and other people think, Oklahoma is OK and we are doing better by the day.  So do not sell us short.  

By the way, we kicked the mob out of Oklahoma years ago.  No worries there. I am sure that Mr. Bennett did not buy the Sonics to fail.  Have you ever considered that upgrading the arena in Seatle is a good idea.  It means new ownership, new team, new winning tradition-that is if Bennett and his staff bring in quality players.  "Build it and they will come" is something that is more applicable here.  Is seatle really committed to the Sonics?  Look at the coaches they have had in the past.  Look at how they have let players stay too long.  Look at how they play today.  Not very good.  

At least, I know from Chris Paul that one of the reasons the Hornets beat teams was the amazing crowd support from Oklahoma fans. Dont forget about that.  

Then I think you fail to forget that the Hornets came to Oklahoma on condition.  The Mayor of Oklahoma city Mick Cornett brokered a deal to bring the Hornets to Oklahoma.  It was a great idea.  It should have showed you the mob boss lackey, that Oklahomans can support a team and will support a team if you bring one to Oklahoma.  Lots of people think we are hicks from the sticks, but that is not true.  We have some of the best colleges in American, We have some of the best health care institutions in the world, we above all have some of the nicest people in America that work hard and strive to improve Oklahoma daily.  I dont think those groups will go away any time soon because Oklahoma's leadership has been very good so far.  We are on the rise as they say.  So dont count Oklahoma or Oklahomans out.  

If you want to point a finger, point your fingers at Seattle.  If Seattle really loves their team, they should embrace the new owners and build a new arena.  I know that Oklahoma would upgrade the Ford Center if the Sonics came to Oklahoma and we would fill the seats.  And as we did before, we would have record nights of attendance just like anywhere else.  Go back to your home in the Hudson river.  I hope you are face up so you can get a tan.

Oklahomans dont take too kindly to insults.  Come on down and I reckon we can have a showdown at high noon.  
You don't know what you are talking about.  Of course the Oklahoma Sonics will survive.  I mean they have the 42nd biggest media market and Seattle only has the 14th...

David Stern is an idiot and the NBA's attendance, team profitibility, and general interest in the game is decreasing. But better get that Asian interest David!
You think it's bad? You should be living in Oklahoma City. The local news cast last night had a report about all the things that would have to to be "FIXED" and Bennett's mob isn't even here yet. I wonder just how long they would be here before we get held up...I mean...asked for a new or updated arena.
Open Mike, you are not in the know.  If there is nothing you know about Bennett and OKC, than how can you comment on it not working.  I live in San Diego and had season tickets in OKC for 2 years while the Hornets were there, even when the city knew the Hornets were going back in year two they broke season ticket records.  Oh and did you know that the Ford Center in OKC has a higher average attendance for all events than Madison Square Garden? Probably not. The Sooners games are always a sell out and you can't even get a ticket for those.  The people of Oklahoma City are sports mad and the fact that there aren't any pro teams to support only points into one direction...SUCCESS.
Get your facts straight. OKC Hosted the Hornets for 2 years.
I don't tend to always agree with you, Mike, but as a Seattle-type-person I have to say you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The two other teams in the city at the very least alternate between competative or at least fun to watch! For years the Sonics have been beyond disappointing; frittering away talent and entertainment and all the while complaining that the city doesn't 'support' them. While I hate to ask 'what have you done for me lately?' in this particular case it sure does seem fitting. The team hasn't engaged the community in a very long time, and frankly what else are they here for?

Sports is entertainment, full stop. Even if the Mariner's lose a game, you're hard pressed to not have a least a little fun at Safeco and the Seahawks have been pushing competitive for a good few years now. (Yes, I know this season is disappointing. Believe me, I know.) Until the Sonics win over the city, why should we care? Trying to sell people on paying for something that isn't much fun is rather akin to the eskimo and fridge bit, isn't it?

But about that hockey team...
this guy thinks that hockey is more fun to watch than the NBA, creditability out of the window.
Uh, novelty deal for 1 year. I guess facts never got in the way of a good argument. The Hornets played in Oklahoma City for 2 years. Both seasons seemed to be fairly sucessful. Maybe that's why the team owners want to move the team? I imagine that at the end of the day they like to make money, just like everyone else.
Bonnie and Clyde, Bennett and Stern.  
The problem is for the fans though. If you are a big fan of a team you obviously don't want to see them go. You hope your city can keep them.
"the noive a dat guy".... love it. Nice to get it in perspective. Everything you say is spot on... aside from the hockey reference. We been loving NBA hoops in Seattle for 40 years. The Sonics are Seattle's, aint no hockey gonna make up for the memories of slick watts, gus williams, sean kemp... gp... etc.  
i'm looking forward to listening to what the kansas city fans say when the Sonics lose 7 straight in their town.  Of course Bennet will cry about how it's the fault of the arena!
I'm looking forward to the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Kansas City fans after the Sonics lose 7 straight games in their town.  Of course Bennet will blame it on the subpar arena there.
Agree 100% on the Sonics arena column.  Bravo to Seattle and Washington residents and politicians for not giving in to Bennett's threats.  Go ahead and move the team and watch your investment crumble.  If I lived in Washington and was a huge Sonics fan I might think differently, but being a Cleveland Browns fan and having watched Art Modell move the team away over a similar issue, I'm happy to see more people coming to their senses over the crazy demands of rich team owners.
I understand that the Seattle fans are upset.  I understand that many think that if the Sonics move they become the next Ravens.  I understand that OKC is not usually thought of as a hot bed for anything other than Sooner football.  I also understand that the people in Seattle didn't give a darn about the Sonics until it was announced they might loose them.  I couldn't find Sonics gear in Seattle to save my life when I was in 2005 and 2006.  I finally saw a Sonics shirt in my visit...at the airport.  When I hit the shops in Seattle nothing.  AND I WENT DURING BASKETBALL SEASON!!!!  Give OKC a chance, we have the Ford Center, let's take it out for a spin and see what it can do.  I went to Hornet games and they were sold out 9 times out of 10.  The 10th was the ice storm that was so crazy.  I understand that this is a classic catch-22 snafu that will bode badly for both cities, both in the short term and possibly in the long term.  

At least you didn't resort to calling my beloved state names.
If I move to OKC will you build me a house for free? Just checking.

Bennett has already said the $89M Ford Center will not be adequate. So as soon as he gets there he will want a new half billion dollar arena.

The new arena won't be for you, the fan, it will be for those guys who sit in the luxury boxes that displace ordinary seats, and chat on their cell phones, who show up just to make appearences at games.

Detroit brings in about $20M a year from luxury seats. The Sonics bring in about $7M in a good year - but a large part of that is because the Sonics don't operate the building - they don't get revenue from non-Sonics events like other teams do.

Rather than restructure the lease to get additional revenue, Clay wants to swing for the fences and have the taxpayers give him a HALF BILLION dollar arena so he can make an additional $100M over 10 years until the arena is too old and needs an expensive renovation to keep up with the Joneses.

Now, with OKC and surrounding areas having a tiny fraction of income as the Seattle area, do you have nothing else to spend your money on but a half billion dollar arena?

Can we also sell you a monorail? Or perhaps a tunnel?
I don't think many on the Seattle side understand how sports crazy OKC is. There is not much to do here besides watch sports. I have been living here for all of my life so you can trust me when I say this city is starting to grow very fast and the oil business is briging in a lot of money for the city.   It stinks for Seattle that they are losing their long time franchise, but if you believe they will fail in okc you are just plain misinformed.
man please david stern won't let it happen...the market in okc isn't big enough...its all a bout revenue and okc want bring it...42nd verse 14...just do the math gentlemen.....dollars and tv contracts
Having just moved from Seattle to the Eastside, I know what a pleasure it is to see any Seattle franchise play, no matter how crappy they may be some seasons. I personally go for the atmosphere. Yes, I love when the Mariners smash the Red Sox, or when the Storm win a championship, but I'm getting tired of paying for all of that.

This next part is going to really chap a few peoples' rear ends. I am an avid NHL fan. I love hockey at all levels. And I really don't appreciate basketball. I like the Sonics because they're the home team. But Key is not being used very effectively with them, I don't think. Key feels so much more like an ice arena than a basketball court (I've always felt that courts should be much more flashy to reflect the players). Yes, Seattle should keep the Sonics. But the owner needs to suck up a bit more or take them away. With only a modest remodel, Key could be a great venue for an NHL team, and going to the WHL games in the area, I'm pretty sure an NHL team could make it. Especially with the right ownership. Vancouver is just up the road, which could make for a great rivalry, and hockey runs at the same time basketball does. With some PR and some talent on the ice, it could be huge.

Oklahoma City should have something pro. Whomever wrote about the Sooners, that's the truth. Without paying some absurd amount of money, you can't get a ticket. Those people are crazy fans. Let them have a shot at the Sonics and get some new blood in the Seattle area. I'm sure Mr. Allen is just dying to own something else, right?

Just my own thoughts.. I don't expect anyone else to really appreciate them, but I'd love to have a place that feels like Key for an NHL team. Who knows? Maybe even Portland, OR would want a team sometime, too.
I'd like to congratulate all the senseless Seattle people for bashing a place you know NOTHING about. Oklahoma City is an awesome town, and I have no doubt that they will be able to house the Sonics.

Grow up.
Are you kidding me!!! okc is a very fun place,plus its away from the crime and gangs of seattle,its were kids can play safe !!seattle is nasty and yes ive been there,my cosin john lives there,okc has the ford center  holds 18,000 and every game the hornets had sold out,so u know nothing about okc you old gizzer !!
It seems many are missing the point, here. Having been here for 40 years, the Sonics are SEATTLE's team. Clay Bennett most likely will succeed in moving them to Oklahmoa, but sorry, your fans will never measure up to Seattle fans who have stood by our team through thick and thin; present time included.

It sucks for us Seattlites that Howard Schultz chose a NBA team simply as an "investment" and sold it to Clay Bennett knowing he'd move them out of state (incidentally, that's why many of us no longer spend our money at Star*$&cks).

We had no chance of the team staying due to Clay Bennett's premeditated plan to make it virtually impossible for the Sonics to stay. Washington state legislature already overspent themselves on the NFL and MLB stadiums.

Shame on Howard Schultz for selling a local team of 40 years to Clay Bennett, both knowing they were taking a team away from its fans, and shame on Clay Bennett for wanting to take a city's team of 40 years away; all the while bold-face lying that he "really wants to keep the Sonics in Seattle."

Try as you may, but Oklahoma City fans could never possibly measure up to fans who have supported a team 40 years. Sorry, but they'll always be Seattle SuperSonics.
One of OKC's great accomplishments has been to prepay for new assets/amenities to make our city great.
Oklahoma City's MAPS 1 project PREPAID for our magnificent Ford Center arena. This same project financed the nation's best minor league baseball park, completely restored our civic auditorium and convention center, built a great new downtown library, created a downtown riverwalk, and built a scenic river used for international rowing competitions & intracity transportation. Each MAPS project was not started until after the sales tax was collected to completely pay for that project. After MAPS 1 completed, we passed MAPS 2 which built 3 new high schools and renovated 69 additional schools in the OKC school district and additionally gave funding to 33 other school districts where OKC students attend. MAPS 2 completes its funding in November. Neither MAPS 1 or 2 involved any bonds or indebtedness. EVERY MAPS PROJECT IS PAID IN FULL.

http://www.okc.gov/MAPS/index.html
http://www.okc.gov/OCMAPS/index.html

I was born in OKC almost 60 years ago & there are more fun things to do now than anytime in my lifetime. One of the benefits of having a prepaid arena is that our ticket prices won't necessarily be as expensive as other cities who have to include amortizing & repaying for their arenas unpaid debt. Even prepaying another $100 million to enhance our Ford Center to make it competitive with the best of other NBA arenas, is really a bargain compared to what other cities have had to pay for their arenas -- especially if the interest on their bonds are included. Also, I am very glad that the consortium of Oklahoma investors in the Sonics are already great contributors to our city. The proposal to renovate the Ford Center to make it one of the better NBA venues will extend our "temporary" sales tax beyond December, if we voters agree. Even with the MAPS tax, people in 58% of the nation's top 51 cities pay more state & local taxes than we do.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbycity2005/index.html

Hopefully, if we vote to extend our one cent "temporary tax", the NBA will approve the Sonics moving here & Oklahoma City will be internationally famous for something besides tornadoes, cowboys & an infamous bombing.

--- John M Hite, Oklahoma City  
I hate it when money clouds people's sense of integrity and judgment.  Of course OKC can support a professional team -- and they deserve a chance.  But to strip Seattle from their longest tenure sports team?  A team with a rich history and a promising future?  Why?  Why would you do that to someone?  That's like taking a pacifier from a baby and then throwing it at them.  What a slap in the face.  

I hate it when sports teams relocate, it's just not fair to the fans.  But business is business I guess.  

Maybe one day there will be an owner who realizes that if he/she can afford to buy a professional team, then he/she can afford to lose some money on down seasons.  This is the professional level, teams don't stay bad for long.  

And personally, I think Seattle has a bad habit of only routing for the winning team -- even worse than most teams.  Find the famed "12th man" from when the Seahawks were still in the AFC.  Find a sold out Safeco Field in the present day when the Mariners aren't playing the Red Sox.  We need to get our act together if we want to keep this team -- be more like Oakland Raider fans.  Support your flippin' team!  It's that simple!
OKLAHOMA Sucks!  I was stationed at Ft. Sill, and spent many nights in OKC.  The people there are stupid, they still live like they're in the 1800's, the women are fat and ugly, the men all chew tobacco and drive beat-up Ford trucks, and are all under-educated.  Oklahoma is basically Texas' little bastard step child.  Anyway, the Northwest is the best, the Sonics need to stay in Seattle, they would crumble in 2 years if they move to COW-TOWN, or COW-CRAP TOWN, OKC.
all i can say is, we put up the money for a new facility, and we're getting the Sonics. You should encourage your leaders to drop the court case unless you really want these players to play for two more years in an empty arena for absolutely no reason.

It's sad that we took such a storied franchise, instead of the Hornets, but we did what we had to. No, there's no guarantee that they're gonna flourish, but we took the hardest challenge that the NBA gave us(the Hornets) and we propelled them from a 17 win season to the playoffs in two years.

Kurt Cobain, for someone who boasts that we're so stupid:
"Anyway, the Northwest is the best, the Sonics need to stay in Seattle, they would crumble in 2 years if they move to COW-TOWN, or COW-CRAP TOWN, OKC"

I'm nominating this for the worst ever attempt at an insult in life. I'm pretty sure every other citizen of Seattle is embarrassed for and of you. Besides, Seattle is keeping the name and the colors, we're just taking the team. And apparently you and KC are next in line for a new team.
It's funny, when Bennett & company bought the Sonics, my first thought was "Okay, bye bye Sonics".  They have been so bad for so long that I didn't really care.  After reading about how dishonest Bennett & company seem to have been through out the process, I hope that the city of Seattle forces them to stay for the two years left in their lease nobody shows up for the games or watches them on TV.  After that, good riddance, you can have them.  The new GM seems to be positioning the team for several years of lottery picks.  Hopefully by then they will have to fold due to the money they will have lost.

I assume Bennett is typical of Oklahoman's, you can't trust them...
Haha, we shall see...Clay Bennett did his best to keep the Sonics in Seattle, not like he did anything that all of the other NBA owners haven't done, including Mark Cuban, who is only afraid of competition 2 1/2 hours up the interstate.....also nice of Seattle people to slam Oklahoma, a place that would welcome them with a friendly smile and a great attitude to this very day...
This should not be Seattle against Oklahoma everyone wants a sports team. Corporate welfare should not become the norm for owners that make billions. The NBA is being ruined by poor management in all areas. Something creative like allowing the team to be hosted between the two cities would help get more support. Basketball as we know it today will not even be around in another 10 years if this continues. For those of both cities do you feel that the children in your schools or these billionaires should get support. Billionaires understand how to make money and using public funding should be stopped in every state. I would love it if the state paid my rent also.
I have a simple question.  If Seattle loves the Sonics so much,  why do they not attend the games?  Bottom 10 in attendance every year this decade.  For a city that seems to want to keep their team so badly they sure didnt enjoy them while they were there.
It's easy to stereotype a place you've only read about in, "The Grapes of Wrath," or "The ivisible Man." That doesn't make it true.

Too be honest, after reading some of the bashing of OKC here, I almost felt compelled to point out the obvious stereotypes of Seattle.  I wont but you all know what they are.

Oklahoma is one of the cleanest and well run cities in America.  I've lived in Virginia, So Cal, Dallas, Kansas City and Denver in my life.  OKC is different in many ways but also better in many ways.

It is sad that the Sonics are leaving Seattle but the residents of that city have nobody to blame but themselves (and maybe Shultz).
It's sad to see the ignorance embedded within this thread. (I know, big words for an Okie right?)

First off, Edmond and Norman, both within 30 minutes of OKC, have the wealth and population alone to support a NBA team. The average household income in Edmond is more than 3 times the number you all have been posting for OKC, and it is regularly awarded by various sources as one of the best places to live in the country.

Secondly, we are not a state full of idiots as you all would like to believe. Put our top University versus Washington's. We win hands down, both academically and athletically. Also, some of our school districts are considered top in the nation.

Third, I have lived in many big cities, and OKC is just as modern as any of them, more so in some cases. Since we are on the rise alot of things are "newer" here.

Fourth, as has already been said, we supported a NBA team for two years, and if we can sellout Sooner games when the bad tickets go for well over $100 for the less significant games, we can easily support a NBA team of our own. As someone else said above, you can't just count the population, you have to count the population in regards to sports fans, and EVERYONE in Oklahoma is a sports fan. We have the most popular high school rivalry in football in the country as voted on by ESPN, and OU vs. OSU games have to be up there near the top for the nation as well on the collegiate level.

Fifth, People keep pointing out OKC has the 42nd largest TV market, which is true, but if you add in Tulsa, which is within a hour drive from OKC, it is a top 25 market.

Lastly, I can't believe anyone would call OKC dirty. The city takes great pride in keeping itself beautiful, and we have many different projects towards this goal, including Bricktown and our zoo, which is the second largest and most popular in the nation behind San Diego Zoo. I have been to Seattle, the city is filthy and crime ridden. I would never, never try to raise a family there.

So, anything else anyone would like to discuss?


Look, you can rationalzie it anyway you want OKC'ers. The fact is your boy Clay is stealing a team away from a base of fans that have just schilled out for two state of the art arenas, and had previously upgraded their current one. The Key Arena is perfectly fine for now, the owners are trying to make more money.
You want a basketball team and feel like you can support one. That's fine. But don't try to act like you're not being sold stolen goods. That's all.

The indifference that is being shown toward Oklahoma City throughout this thread is repulsive. I for one can tell you that after being raised in Oklahoma...true Oklahomans value two things-hospitality and growth. From experience, we can support an NBA team and we do not take kindly to insults that are unwarranted. The insults embedded throughout this thread just show how ignorant someone can be when their primary goal is to sprout jealously.  We deserve the team and the team deserves a chance to be supported by fans.
Did Clay work for the Sooners in the Acaimdemic world. Clay said he was going to keep the Sonics in Seattle,but I guess he thinks it's ok to lie.  I hope he gets his just deserve for what he has done to the Sonic fans in Seattle. It's too bad you like to lie  Clay Oklahoma sucks and that's what holds Texas up!!!!
No one has ever stolen a sports team. That's pretty bush league. It's just business and if you don't like the business of the NBA, then I can understand, but throwing out the old the whiners' cliche of "no fair, that's stealing" is pretty weak. Please feel free to steal anything you want from me for $75 million dollars.

Seriously, several years ago the National Finals Rodeo moved from Oklahoma City, where it had been for 20 years, to Las Vegas. No matter what one thinks about Rodeo it was big event in Oklahoma City and is a big one in Las Vegas. Now, did Vegas "steal" the event from Oklahoma City? No, they just outbid us and have done so several times. Basically, Seattle just got outbid, even after having exclusive rights for years to strengthen their position against any possible competition for hosting the Sonics...

Oh wait... the lease. Well, anyone who has any business experience knows that what just happened with the Key Arena lease it not atypical in any way. A business got a better offer and settled the remaining term on its current lease. That's not stealing, that's business. Happens every day.

Seriously, it sucks that such a rich tradition in Seattle has come to an end. But what sucks about it is that it wasn't important enough for the Puget Sound to maintain it at a level on par with that of the rest of the league. If Oklahoma City doesn't do it, I fully expect them to leave, be it in 7 years or 41. There is no inherent right to major league sports.
"Secondly, we are not a state full of idiots as you all would like to believe. Put our top University versus Washington's. We win hands down, both academically and athletically. Also, some of our school districts are considered top in the nation. "

wow, you are an ignorant person. It's no wonder America's economy is going down the tube with people like this living here. The University of Washington is far superior to any University in Oklahoma. UW is ranked #84 best university in the world guess where Oklahoma is? No where. Didn't even make it. And what does how good of a college both academically and it's athletics program have to do with which city deserves a pro team. Seattle has a larger population than Oklahoma and that's not including the greater Seattle area. Also Seattle has been rated as one of the most favorable cities to live in and to move to in the U.S. Once again no sign of any Oklahoma cities. Your arguments are false and you are an ignorant and obviously confused individual.

I am all for Oklahoma City having it's own team, but to take the Sonics away from Seattle, and to argue that your city is better  is so out there and so wrong that I cannot support the NBA and the hypocritical fool of a man otherwise known as David Stern
Looks like the former Sonics will sell out season tickets in Oklahoma City in less than a few days:

http://blog.newsok.com/nbainokc/2008/09/08/pro-market/

Queue the Novelty Argument...

OK, maybe it still is just the novelty, but the market is there and is obviously capable of supporting an NBA team, even if it had the 2nd worst record in the NBA last year. Sure, if they continue with that, demand will fall off, but there's obviously more big money supporting the Thunder than there was the Sonics.


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