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Mike Celizic

NBCSports.com contributor Mike Celizic provides his unique slant as he takes an offbeat look into the world of sports beyond the box scores.



Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:08 PM

BEIJING – I don’t know how old He Kexin, the 4-foot-8, 73-pound princess of the Chinese women’s gymnastics team is. Maybe she’s 14, as local newspaper reports said she was earlier this year. And maybe she’s 16 as her passport claims she is.

 

The International Gymnastics Federation, which goes by the acronym FIG, says the passport is proof enough for them. As the ultimate arbiters of the sport, what FIG says is the way it’s going to be.

 

But even if He is under the 16-year-old minimum age for gymnasts, it seems unbecoming of the American team’s director, Marta Karolyi, and the legendary gymnastics coach Bela Karolyi to be complaining that the Chinese cooked their diminutive heroine’s passport. The suggestion is that if the Chinese had had to fight fair with 16-year-old girls, Team America wouldn’t have finished second in the Olympic tournament.

 

If the United States had nailed every routine and not suffered a rash of crippling injuries and lost anyway, I might be willing to listen to the charges of age doping. But they didn’t. The American women had several costly mistakes and butt plants and falls that ultimately made it impossible for them to win. So it doesn’t matter how old He is. She didn’t beat the Americans. Injuries and mistakes did them in.

 

Considering the circumstances, silver wasn’t a bad prize to take home. The Karolyis, as the most visible people connected with the team, should concentrate on the positive aspects of the competition for their athletes. By focusing on He’s age, they’re just adding to the negativity that’s descended on the team.

 

They have a point about age. Marta Karolyi has said that FIG should ditch the 16-year-old age requirement so that this won’t be a continuing problem, which it is certain to be, especially in countries where official documents can be made to say anything the authorities want them to.

 

Going back to 14-year-olds would reintroduce other problems. The age limit was adopted because it was felt the younger girls’ developing bones were being physically endangered by grueling gymnastics training. But it’s clear that nobody’s backing off that much on the tiny tumblers. It’s doubtful that anyone’s been spared two-a-days because of her youth. And other sports don’t have the same worries about girls being too young to compete.

 

But this isn’t the time to be arguing that. With FIG and the International Olympic Committee both saying the case is closed, the whining just detracts from what all the athletes have accomplished. Take the issue up after the flame is snuffed, not before.

 

It is a bizarre issue anyway. Usually, when people lie about their ages, they make themselves younger, not older. It’s a ploy that’s been used by some Latin American ballplayers who feel that listing themselves as being younger than they are improves their chances of getting to the big leagues.

 

Then there was Danny Almonte, the Little League pitcher who made himself two years younger to become a hero in the Little League World Series before the ruse was discovered and he became a disgraced hero.

 

But in women’s gymnastics, tiny girls who haven’t yet matured have advantages over grown women, who have to deal with a changed center of gravity and wider hips. When 14-year-olds ruled the sport, puberty was a career-ending injury, and coaches and trainers used restrictive diets and sometimes drugs to delay it. It’s not something I’d let anyone do to my daughter, but not many people complained when the little girls were winning medals and charming audiences.

 

Anyway, regardless of what you think of what such young girls are put through, it’s going to keep happening. When a girl has the kind of otherworldly talent that Olympic gymnasts possess, all reason goes out the window. And the girls themselves are as willing as any other athlete to do what it takes to win.

 

He Kexin is one of those phenomenally gifted children, and she’s helped her country win gold. She’s got the documentation – forged or otherwise – that says she’s of legal age. We’ve no choice to let it go at that.

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Comments

So it is okay to cheat lie and steal as long as you can get away with it, that is what you are saying.  It's okay the the Chineese lied on their documents becasue we can't do anything to change it.  A lie is a lie, no matter how small or even if you can get away with it.
why bother having the Olympics if no one HAS to follow the rules. I say cancel them.
When looking at the big picture, sure it doesn't matter how old she is.  But the bottom line is that the rules right now say that gymnasts must be 16 to compete, and a country should not be able to cheat their way to a medal by using gymnasts who are younger and thus have certain advantages over older gymnasts (especially in women's gymnastics).  If the US used under age competitors, you'd better believe that they would have been investigated and disqualified by now.  
In Gymnastics being small and "undeveloped" for females is an advantage. Many talented female gynasts have been completely thrown off by the physical changes associated with puberty. When your spinnig through the air and now suddenly have breasts and hips it changes the center of gravity wjich can affect the whole dynamic. Why the gripe you say? Well the gripe is that the rules are 16 and cheating in anyform is not an acceptable olympic ideal nor worthy of a gold medal.
Well... I think the "choice" is to do exactly what is being done, namely, raise a stink about it.  Put pressure on the IOC to conduct some sort of an investigation and see if the host nation of the olympics has committed a fraud upon the atheletes and governments of every nation competing by fielding a team with 4 suspected gymnasts who do not qualify.  Cheating is cheating is cheating.
I don't understand your the article... How can you claim that the Americans are being sore losers?

The age issue was a problem BEFORE the event. And before the US team made the mistakes that took them out of gold contention.

But does that matter? If the chinese team broke the IOC rules then no. There is no other way to view it. You break the rules and you lose your medal. Even the last place team moves up a spot.
I can't agree more. To add to your points, Chinese gymnasts have always look that young. The same question is raised almost every single Olympics. It is not an isolate incident just for the Beijing Olympics. I believe either the girls are younger than they claim themselves to be or they were drugged to keep their body the shape of a little girl. The IOC and FIG have always been ok with the Chinese team as long as their age records with them are consistent. What's the big fuss this time?

I guess the important difference this time is, this is the first time the Chinese girls ever achieved a team gold medal and team USA is defeated. However, the US team was not defeated by the Chinese team, but by themselves. So, get over it!

It does matter how old she is.  We (USA) have plenty of thirteen/fourteen year olds that are AWESOME too.  But if China has to win by cheating, so be it.  It's lame.  If we have to play by the rules, they should too.  One of those girls had teeth growing in (indication of loosing a baby tooth recently).  How many 16 year olds don't have all of their adult teeth (with exception to the wisdom teeth).  It does matter sir.  As girls age their bodys change, their center of gravity change...  So if all the other teams play by the rules, so should China.  It's sad.  They wanted Gold so bad they were willing to cheat for it.  Whatev.
Do we really?

Yes, the gold was lost due to mistakes on the part of the american team.  

But to just let it go... is the answer that the olympics committee wants to send?

You get caught doping you lose the medal.  But its okay to get caught lying about the age of the girl.  

In fact there is more of an American-centric egoism in the way that the original author is approaching this then in what should and needs to be done.  If, and yes, it is an IF, if the chinese team did indeed put gymnasts younger then the age requirements, lied about it and covered it up, even if they forged the documents.  Then ... they medal should be stripped from them.

Not because then the Americans would get the gold.

No.   But because it is only proper that if you cheat.  You do not deserve to win.

It is the same in any sport, and in any situation, no matter who would get the gold afterwords.  

The answer is to NOT get over it, but instead for China to address the situation appropriately.
Sorry Mike, I have to disagree with you. If there is an age requirement, there is an age requirement. In this case, it's not just because the younger girls might get hurt but also because they're more flexible than the older girls. If they're smaller, they can spin better, tumble better, have better balance. They also aren't too wrapped up in all the pressure at the younger ages. If they are 16, it will be interesting to see if they are at the Olympics as 20 yr olds and then 24 yr olds? It's women's gymnatics, not girl's gymnastics.
If it's ok for the Chinese to cheat, then it should be ok for Danny Almonte to cheat in Little League.  If the chinese gymnasts are truly old enough, their parents would be beating down the media's doors to show additional proof - birth certificates, pictures, class pictures from each grade, announcements in the local papers dated 1992, copies of medical records for the mothers showing their dates in the maternity ward, etc.  Instead we have a stonewall of silence.  Cheating is cheating is cheating.  The other teams (Japan, USA, Roumania, etc) followed the rules and left behind 14 and 15 year olds who might have been able to score higher point values.  

Other athletes have to prove through inspections their bodyweight (boxing, rowing, etc), equipment (canoeing, javelin, yachting, etc), and their gender.  Maybe we should return to the honors system of just taking the federations' word for it that the athletes meet weight, equipment and gender guidelines?

There is evidence in published reports from Chinese media in 2004, 2005 and 2006 listing younger ages that make the chinese gymnasts ineligible in A better reporter would track the reports down, visit the hometowns, interview the locals and get to the bottom of it.  Instead, you'd rather give up.  
So What? This is about fairness!  In a sport that favors age and youth, you have to play by the rule.  The US has many elite gymnasts under 16 that could easily be put into a regiment and train for the Olympics.  The Chinese gymnast no doubt, performed well in the events, definitely beat the US gymnasts.  But when the playing field is not level, there will always be questions on the legitimacy of their win.
Oh, so your solution is that if they are cheating, LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT???

That is moronic, and if that girl is a day over 14, I will eat my testicles, lol
Age rules were broken - medals should be stripped - end of story. It's not griping; it's the bloody rules.
Sorry Celizik, you're wrong on this one.  If even one of the Chinese gymnasts is underage it would be CHEATING!  And no - the rest of the world doesn't have to "let it go at that" just because the Chinese government produces false documents.  The IOC has the responsibility to investigate these claims and if true DQ the Chinese team.  Whether it is drugs, being underage, judging bribes (remember 2004?), or any other form of cheating, the IOC must aggressively investigate to preserve the integrity of the games.
So what you are supporting is cheating; forging documents is cheating, doping is cheating. It doesn't matter what team came in 2nd, the point is they are not following Olympic rules. Wether you think the rules are useful or not, anyone else not following the rules gets kicked out. Look at those who test positive for drugs and claim not to know they were being given to them. Why don't you just let them slide through also.

You have completely missed the point on why this is a terrible thing that the Chinese have done in the spirit of the Olympics.
Doesn't matter that the Chinese out performed their competition.  The FACT remains that they broke the rules, whether it's a fair rule or not..doesn't matter.  If they discover that they are underaged, they're gold medal should be voided.  

 We all know that if had been the Americans in their place, the world would be calling for their heads.
Well if the fair play that is always put up for children to play and abide by is not good for the Olympics; then why should they be good for lets say track and field or basebol.......so lets give back the medals taken away to the track and field folks like marion jones and the rest after all what is a little substance enhancement amongst Olympians any ways right?!!
Well if the fair play that is always put up for children to play and abide by is not good for the Olympics; then why should they be good for lets say track and field or basebol.......so lets give back the medals taken away to the track and field folks like marion jones and the rest after all what is a little substance enhancement amongst Olympians any ways right?!!
The rules are supposed to be the rules, regardless of their perceived fairness or effectiveness. In the TDF the riders have to give two samples and they can be dismissed if one is found to be cheating. Let's see the birth certificates of the Chinese babies and let them convince us they are legit. Marion Jones and Floyd Landis broke the rules and lost their medals. I don't disagree about the level of performance given by the Chinese children but the Jones and Landis efforts looked good at the time of the event as well.  The Olympics are supposed to be played by the rules and the same rules should apply to all, not just those that are willing to compete legally within them.
I can't agree more. To add to your points, Chinese gymnasts have always been looking that young. The same question was raised almost every single Olympics. It is not an isolated incident just for the Beijing Olympics. I believe either the girls are younger than they claim themselves to be or they were drugged to keep their body the shape of a little girl. The IOC and FIG have always been ok with the Chinese team as long as their age records with them are consistent. What's the big fuss this time?

I guess the important difference this time is, this is the first time the Chinese girls ever achieved a team gold medal and team USA is defeated. However, the US team was not defeated by the Chinese team, but by themselves. So, get over it!

Hmmm, Mike,

I think you sorely miss the point.  Everything you have written can and should be used as a counter-argument to your point(s).  You argue, so they cheated--get over it.  If the American girls had been perfect then you can complain.  Then you go on to admit the advantage to playing younger because of the change in center of gravity which is why this is a prepubescent sport.

As a mother who put her daughter in gymnastics before she could even begin to consent, your argument is specious when you state the girls want to win to--so if they lie and cheat, so be it.  First, these girls do not have a choice, either to participate in the sport or to tell the truth about their age.
 
I am not supporting the Karolyi's in their continued complaints, I agree that it is time to end the complaining but I also do not support your argument which is equally flawed for the reasons I've stated and many more.  

Bottom line is cheaters should never be rewarded and if it is becomes apparent that the Chinese have cheated the situation should be handled appropriately by FIG.  

P.S.   Has anyone checked the floor to see if it was designed with less give; so that, bigger (and age appropriate gymnasts) may be propelled out of bounds while slighter (and perhaps younger) gymnast do not suffer the same fate--these are just things that make you go hmmmm.
Just curious - if being young has an advantage, shouldn't that apply to the men's side too? Shouldn't it also apply to style iceskating of the winter games? I am simply not that persuaded by the perceived "advantage" yet.

By the way, by reading your article, one may mistakenly think Bela Karolyi is the team coach. Is he? I thought Liang Chow is the team coach.
Totally agree.
You won't believe what the latest complains the Karolyis had.  They complained that the Chinese volunteers working in the stadium distracted Alicia.  Remove them or US women's gymnastics team will lose again and again alter.
Sorry, Mike.  I don't agree with you on this one.  Cheating is cheating.  And I'd like to see you express this opinion face-to-face to each one of those U.S. Women gymnasts who've trained hard for hours and hours, and played by the rules.  It doesn't feel right at all, no sir.    
Mike, What a tool you are.
You are wrong about age it is important sets boundaries on the competing teams, so there is a level playing field. US also has younger girls that would have made the team but kept off do to age. Would you be less likely to saction a sa a fighter clearing heavier competing in lower weight class because the scales in one nation say he's 100bls when in every other nation he tips the scale at 125 or 140 lbs.
Hi! well if this young lady is younger than she says well i am sorry but rules are rules! if the United States had a 14 year old who said they were 16 years old then the whole world would be on our case! This is just as bad as dopping and it should be reviewed and be took cared of. If this happens nowthen the next Olympics we will have the same problem. i do hope the China does have the girls at the right age for they deserved to win but if they are not they should be honorable about there decision. China has always said "Honor before glory" yet there honor is in jeopordy here. Thankd you
Fist of all Americans have to agree that most Chinese are much older than they look like. And for this game, shorter and smaller has advance. Even the girls in American team are very small and short. This is the requirement for this game. I have a Chinese friend. She looks like a high school student. In fact, she is postdoc and almost 34 years old. This really shocked everyone around her. She looks really young.      
This doesn't have anything to do with how the Americans did.  The bottom line is whether China followed the rules. And if they are lying about these girls' ages, then that is blatant cheating and a disrespect to the world. If you break the rules, aka cheat, you should be disqualified.  Two examples of this happening in the Olympics are the American boxer who missed weigh in.  They took a hard line approach with this, and he was disqualified from competing.  Also, look at the Chinese swimmer who was disqualified for a false start.  The only reason that these gymnasts are different is because it hasn't been proven that they are under 16.  If these girls are under 16, then think about the lengths that China went to in order to fool the world. If that is the case, they should not only be disqualified, but banned from international competition.  
Rules are rules, and if He is under the age rule limit then it is cheating.  Plain and simple. Regarless of how the American, or any other team performed, cheating is still cheating.  In my opinion this is no different that doping.  The IOC needs to enforce the rule or elimate the rule if they can't.
This misses the point. If the Chinese (or any other country) are falsifying the ages of thier gymnasts, then they are at an unfair advantage in selecting their teams.  The result in 2004, for example, may have been different if the US squad could have added a then 14-year old Nastia Liukin.  If the age restriction is being ignored by some, then why have it?  The best athletes should represent their counttes. If this age restriction had been in place in 1976, Nadia could not even have competed in the games, much less get that first 10.  
Hey Mike, I think you should NOT write anymore article or comment about anything from now on. And MSNBC.com should not publish any of his article. Mike Celizic doesn't have the integrity and honesty within his writing, he agreed to cheat and dishonesty to a world class event. This is not about China's Team won GOLD neither US team with SILVER. Olympian is not ONLY about GOLD medal, it's also about HONESTY and SPORTMANSHIP in their heart.
Hey Mike, I wonder how long you have live on this earth ? Is Chinese government trustable ?
I have no doubt that He Kexin is a great gymnast's athlet, however, every event have its rule and regulation, everyone have to follow it. You might not agree with me, but do your homework before post any of your article. As you said at the begining of the article, "I don't know how old He Kexin" .. then STOP right there. You can follow the below link to the latest article about He Kexin..
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news;_ylt=ApwNXO7HFn4NR5j131Zov3SVTZd4?slug=ap-gym--underagechinese&prov=ap&type=lgns
Some people may think ripe grapes are sour when they can't get them.
So pointing out clear violations of the rules is "whining".  Good to know.  
Agree!  

If a girl has the ability to complete in this game, go for it!  Who give you the right to say if one is too old or too young?  No age discrimination!
Danny Almonte is a "disgraced hero" but He Kexin is not.  Why is that exactly?  Because it's a "bizarre" case?  Because she has the documents, "forged or otherwise"?  Because now "isn't the time" to be arguing about it?  Because the US "made mistakes"?  

I'd say the rule is pretty black and white.  By your logic those little leaguers should have all just quit crying because after all, they did strike out a lot.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. I think if there is sufficient evidence of 'age doping' then there needs to be something done. I don't care if it was the US, Romania, China, or whoever, if you break the rules, then you don't compete, simple as that. I can almost promise you that if it were the US people would be screaming bloody murder.
so China couldn't wait until 2012?  maybe the US has some extraordinary 14 year olds who weren't given a  chance to cheat, I mean compete this year - everyone has to play by the same rules and be held accountable!
When the Chinese lost, the Chinese think their athletes were not good enough, not fast enough and not strong enough. On the contrary, when we lose, we say the other cause us to lose. How could we get respect from around the world?

The indirect message from Bob Costa and comments from Martha and Bela Karalyi makes me sick. I don't see their comments during competition would help the US team in any way. Since 1984, on TV at least, I'd never seen Martha or Bela showed any support when the athlete was under-performed. By the way, who's Shawn Johnson personal trainer?  
Why do we need to get over it?  So...we should always turn a blind eye to cheating?  The age restrictions were put in place for several reasons.  And believe me, the USA has plenty of 13 and 14 year olds who would have made this team if they were older.  NO!  We won't get over it!!
I completely disagree with this. I understand how it might seem like sour grapes, but I submit that rules should be followed irrespective of anything else. And while the US team might have made mistakes, you could make a case that a rule abiding properly aged Chinese team would have made mistakes as well, thereby leveling the playing field. This is my opinion and I don't care about the Olympics at all.
I'm with you, the Karoli's are taking away from what the girls accomplished and bottom line is the Chinese didn't beat us because of age, they won because they hit their routines. I personally think our girls did a great job but it was not gold medal worthy and I would bet the girls would agree. There has always been cheating in the olympics and we are as guilty of that in various events as the rest of the world so lets move on.
you have a good point here. Let's move on.
I don't think this has anything to do with sour grapes on the US part, but more on the rules and the interest of fair play.  No one should be able to subvert the rules, falsify documents, commit fraud and get away with it.  What are we teaching the world if China gets away with it.  I guess it's good news for Canada when their underage skiing sensation gets to win the gold because the government created a false birth certificate (he says sarcastically).  Even if the China team came in dead last, or didn't even qualify it would still be wrong.  The fact that evidence and a country with a history of falsifying documents for their athletes (a former Chinese gymnast Yang Yun won double bronzes in Sydney and later confessed she was only 14, not 16 as her passport/government claimed) and they will apparently going to get away with it...again...bothers me and in my opinion goes against everything the Olympics are about, namely sportsmanship and competition.  If there was no wrong doing, then well played China, you performed well and deserve your medals, however, if China cheated (didn't follow the rules) then an example needs to be set.  When you allow it to happen you condone it.  So Mr. Celizic, there is harm in letting it go.  I don't care about a US medal, I do care about the integrity of the Olympics!
Just a few more words from me, there are flexiblity issue the older a young girls. This is why having young girls on the time is so desired. If this girl who is so talented and is worthy of the honors look again at her in two or three years to see if she really has the tallent or it was a age thing.  
Yes,nothing will be resolved now, but should be later.  If all the other countries play by the rules, then so should China.  FIG should adopt a different method for proving age, just as other organization do to screen for doping.
If athletes have Golds stripped due to doping then they should have them stripped for being under-aged. A rule is a rule. Everyone knows that child isn't sixteen.  Any mom can look at her and tell you that. All Olympians should be playing by the same rules and China isn't following those rules.
It is ridicules to judge a person's age based on the weight and appearance. I am a 37 years old dad with two kids, weight under 130. But people are telling me that I look like a college student under 25 years old. If you judge my age based on my face, you will be totally wrong.

I have seen a video taped in 2003, which showed how some Chinese women’s gymnastics were chosen. Can 2003 tape be a lie?
Rules are rules.  Cheating is cheating. Any breaking of rules create an advantage for the rule breaker, if it wasn't so - a competitor wouldn't attempt or need to CHEAT.  What is the sense of competition if rules are not followed.  People, teams, organizations, and countries that cheat have to live with the knowledge that they did, and the guilt they they have won at the expense of their honesty, integrity, morality, and capibility.


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