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Mike Celizic

NBCSports.com contributor Mike Celizic provides his unique slant as he takes an offbeat look into the world of sports beyond the box scores.



In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:27 AM

The questions about the ages of the Chinese female gymnasts aren’t going to go away. I’ve said before that if they’ve got the required documents — and the IOC and FIG, the governing body of gymnastics, say they do — there’s nothing anybody can do about it. The documents may be forgeries concocted by the government, but good luck proving that in a country that isn’t known for its openness.

I don’t know the ages of He Kexin, Jiang Yuyuan and Yang Yilin. They may not even know at this point. But I do know that calendar age isn’t the real issue here. Physical age is.

Forget 14 or 16. Physically, these girls couldn’t even pass for 12. They have no hips and no breasts. From all outward appearances, they haven’t even hit puberty, which, in women’s gymnastics, can be a career-ending injury.

The reason that gymnastics raised the minimum age for international women’s competitions from 14 to 16 was to get some actual women into the event. It was overrun by girls like the Chinese Munchkins, who had not yet hit puberty. Coaches like such girls because they are better tumblers — they don’t have to deal with wider hips and a changed center of gravity. Their ratio of upper-body to lower-body strength was also better.

Coaches worked hard to make sure the girls stayed girls. One way to delay puberty is to restrict the number of calories the children ate. Work them at a 4,000-calorie-a-day pace and feed them 1,500 calories, and they can’t grow like a normal child. In order for a girl to start menstruating, she needs a certain percentage of body fat. Keeping them skinny and underfed prevents that. Just to make sure, there are drugs that can delay puberty.

But delaying puberty delays the production of estrogen, which is critical in developing bone density. Among the job hazards of being a gymnast are arriving at the age of 30 with the bone density of a 90-year-old woman.

Setting a minimum age doesn’t solve the real problem, which is that training girls to be world-class gymnasts can be indistinguishable from child abuse. Several books have been written on the subject, one of the best being Joan Ryan’s 1995 work, “Little Girls in Pretty Boxes.”

If you or I took our 14-year-old girl for a physical and the doctors saw a 68-pound waif who hadn’t reached puberty, was covered in bruises and had evidence of several joint injuries and stress fractures, we’d be in jail and our girls would be in protective custody. If a gymnastics coach does it, he or she is a national hero — if the girl does well at the Olympics.

It’s not as if the 16-year-olds or even the girls who are 18 are that much better off. They may actually have bodies that are recognizably female, but they’re absurdly tiny and undernourished.

The age minimum just increases the number of years girls can be subjected to the punishing training and constant pain that is part of the sport.

The only way to level the playing field is to forget about chronological age and adopt a rule that requires girls to have gone through puberty before they can compete. I’d throw in a minimum body-fat requirement, too. If a girl has little or no body fat, she can’t compete.

In the best of all worlds, there would also be a minimum weight based on a girl’s height. I don’t know what that would be, but it would be more than 75 pounds, that’s for sure.

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The Chinese have been known to work their athelets harder than most countries. You can see it in the diver who now is near blind from hitting the water too hard too many times.  This rigorus training for gymnasts has to be really hard on a fully developed body but when that body is still growing I can only imagine how bad they will feel for years to come when the repercussions of this abuse hits them and they feel it every day.  I admit the US has more robust children for the most part and usually boys are bigger than girls here but these girls are smaller than my 10 year old boy, which scares me. How young are these girls?  I’m sure the government gives their families some additional benefits for their daughters being trained for the Olympics but is it worth it?  If you look at what is perceived as the beginning of the Olympics I thought they were grown men testing their physical achievement against others, not children being trained their entire life to perform for a committee.
Honestly, physical age is nothing, there are people out there that are 30 years old and naturally look like they are 17.  Same for the reverese (see greg oden) Should he have been allowed in the NBA when he was 11 cause he probably could have physically passed for 28 year old then.

The rule is 16, if they broke it they should be punished, if not the american girls got straight beat
Now you're just being sarcastic. Continue to let all coaches abuse these children because it's too hard to stop everyone from doing it?
you must be kidding.I'm an asian that's 13 years old and people tell me I look like I'm 7 years old. Admit it, you know nothing of the Chinese culture.America is just griping that we can't win.Hmm... first gymnastics then diving. Interesting how it is the sports that America lost at but China won. Interesting...Oh, by the way, asians are genetically really tiny. You, author, are you a physician? M.D? Ph.D? No? oh wow, then you must know tons about average heights and whatnot.Stop whining.
Quite interesting but what people do not comment on is the fact that many americans become sexually active very early and this attributes to a more womanly shape. The chinese and many othetr cultures do not engage in sexula activities early and the girls look like girls and not women
Quite interesting but what people do not comment on is the fact that many americans become sexually active very early and this attributes to a more womanly shape. The chinese and many othetr cultures do not engage in sexula activities early and the girls look like girls and not women
I watched an interview with Shawn Johnson’s parents in Beijing with the Vermont local channel before she got the gold in Beams.  The journalist kept referring Shawn as their 15 year-old daughter. I doubt this was a mistake, since neither her father nor her mother corrected the journalist, especially because she repeated it several times. If Shawn is also under-aged, should IOC also investigate in her age and strip her from the metals she earned for the fairness of the game?
I think I agree with the people saying that Gymnast chines girls are under age. The first time we saw them on TV, we thought there thirteen years old? So now that the world is agreeing of what we thought, I should say were right!
Mike, you've got a serious point.  We make requirements for models these days about their weight, why can't we do the same for gymnastics?  Granted, models are not doing back flips down the runway but we should be more concerned about the proper training and health of our athletes regardless of the sport.  
One will never get a straight answer out of the Chinese.   Bela is correct the younger the less fear they have hence the higher,faster,stronger they can go.  With no female body weight it even becomes easier.  However, if it's fair for one, then just take down the age requirements and let all partake regardless of age..... then the rest of the countries can put of their young girls as well.
I heard a little about this a few years ago, and it stuck with me, because, for the first time I actually felt guilty watching these girls. I'd concider this borderline abuse if not a few inches over that line. But then again, i'm sure the government also forged the documents that state where this "line" actually is.
I fully agree. As much as I enjoy watching gymnastics, I am concerened that the girls are being pushed way too hard. I think trying to push for a "Physical Age" limit would definitely invoke cries of racism from asians who are naturaally smaller than Americans and Europeans. However, a good step in the right direction would be a mandatory dna check by the IOC for all gymnasts before the olympics and possibly the world championships to verify the athleats ages.
If only the powers to be would read this. Thanks for putting in print what a lot of people have been saying.
I agree 1000% with this column. Until they can demonstrate breast development and menstuation they should not be allowed to compete. Otherwise call the events "little girls gymnastics." I can recall about the time Olga Corbett and Nadia were big names, some really good femaled gymnasts were announcing their retirements at 23-26 years of age because they were "too old" for women's gymnastics. What a joke, they were just hitting their prime. I would add that the scores on the diving should be adjusted as well because there is no way that a 5' tall, 75 pound girl is going to splash as much as a 5'6" 140 pounder when entering the water. All you hear is "no splash" great dive, "too much splash" mediocre dive. It is absurd. Size and weight do matter. And sadly, all this doesn't even reflect the skewed judging that has gone on.
Your post is a joke.  The china girls cant even pass for 12? Who are you to even state your opinion?

Have you ever been to china and seen teenage girls?
Have you ever been to china and visited high schools?
How can you judge these girls by their breast size..

Even the IOC claims there was no cheating.

People like you have one-sided judgments and push biased opinions into the world.

We live in China and know what chinese women look like.  Chinese gymnasts are always smaller than American and European girls.  Even the japanese team was the same size of China, although you may have thought they looked "slightly older".

The simple fact of the matter is that the United States got beat down.  I'm sure if the USA had won gold medals like they had in the past, this issue would not of been raised from the start!

Again, the IOC ruled with China, end of discussion.
Perhaps it would be wise too discontinue the olympics.In some countrys ,the pressure too win, on the individual athletes,is almost criminal, and the money that is spent by the host countrys too build stadiums and so forth while many of their population is starving is truely criminal.
I agree that "forced training" is unhealthy for children and that overtraining is possible.

However, in my opinion you have poorly presented your arguments.

Your post contains strong and seemingly unsupported statements that don't appear to reflect due diligence.

Putting aside the fact that the Chinese government wants this Olympics to go perfectly, and would be unlikely to do something so unsportsmanlike as to engage in illegal activities (this Olympics is more important to China than a few gold medals):

One could just as easily say that Chinese women tend to look younger in general (personal opinion). One forty-five year old Chinese woman I met appeared to be in her mid twenties. Have you researched whether Chinese girls mature later than western girls? Whether biological or diet related it could be a factor.

Also, Chinese tend to have slighter frames than their western counterparts. Try comparing Liu Xiang's frame to those of his competitors.

One final observation from extensive personal exposure to athletes in general: Anyone who doesn't eat right will underperform and is susceptible to injury.

Should you be interested in experts backing these alternatives to your positions, I would be happy to dig a few up.
I concur that age restrictions at the Olympics are fundamentally useless.  Authoritarian regimes will always be able to "cheat" as to the age of competitors.  Sadly, they will also inflict suffering upon young athletes, for the purpose of justifying their political systems, whether or not those children are of "Olympic age."  Visually, and irrespective of the age controversy, the U.S. women gymnasts appeared to be robust, well-muscled and healthy -- physically and mentally.  I cannot say the same for some of their Chinese counterparts.

What's the answer?  International supervision of training methods?
Yes, I am agree with you. Weight with heigh should be balance w the age, too. No child abuse for any sport.
They are not cheating. They provided He's current passport, earlier passports, birth certificate and many other proofs to FIG and IOC. There are many other side facts can prove her age, including some video tapes we can see on Youtube. Unless people argue that everything was faked since she was born.  However, the butt of the media here in US decides what they write. They prefer to reporting the suspiciousness instead of the facts. They even started voting assume He Kexin is underage. why? because we, the audience, prefer to hearing that. We find a cheating Chinese team a better reason to explain why US team lose, we find a cheating chinese team a better fit to the image of chinese govenment, which is again, resulting from the selective media reports. The ultimate goal of media is to keep the audience and make money. Period.
Hi, Mike:  how do you prove physical age?  by breast and hip size?    Many of asian women don't have that.  By weight, european-origin women tend to have heavier bone density and weigh more in general than asian women do.   Also, outer appearance doesn't mean anything.   I have tons of Asian friend in their 30s still get carded for buying cigarets here,  

My point here is to hold another culture at this culture's standard is absurd.   That's what we tend to do in lots of aspects of our life in America.  Think outside of the box, Mike.     Maybe you should spend some time living in NYC so that you will be more culturally enriched to change your myopic view.  
If the Chinese were perfectly willing to misrepresent to the world as "live" the lip-syncing performance of one little girl for something as innocuous as the singing of their national anthem at the opening ceremonies, can there be even the slightest doubt that they would do the same with another little girl in order to win Olympic gold?    
This is cheating.  If the Chinese government is in on this than shame on them.  I can't believe a government would knowingly cheat like this.  Do they want the gold medals that bad?  They may be ahead of us in the gold medal race, but we won ours fair and square.
I agree with you most of the time, Mike, but not on this one.  Gymnastics, particularly women's, is complicated and strange enough already without mandating minimum height-weight requirements, let alone requiring girls to have reached puberty!

I do agree it's weird to keep these girls so small on purpose, and I get tired of seeing waif-like girls competing in gymnastics and figure skating, but they choose to be there.  If they know the risks, the athletes and their parents should be prepared to live with the consequences.
Is it possible that they the Chinese are that arrogant that they think they could get away with this?
The premises of restricting girls of certain age to prevent child abuse is utterly laughable. Please name which top female gymnasts were not trained in early childhood: Shawn Johnson (6)?, Nathia Liukin(5)?, the chinese and Romanians? Even though Carolyi couple are obnoxious and disgusting, I agree with them that IOC should do away the age limit for female gymnasts. The rule does not serve anybody.
In the end..... The fact is no matter what age they are.... they are simply  better.
Not only should the documents be examined but the judges in the Gymnastics should also be scrutinized.  The scores they gave the Chinese girls did not match the talent of the girls.  Something a little fishy to me.  Not saying our girls should have won everything but come on let's be fair to all the legitimate gymnasts that competed.  If these girls are proven too you I would think the Chinese government would lose more than honor. JMHO
My wife is Japanese. She is 5' 0" and, in her 30's, weighs 84 pounds. You can be assured she does not, and never has, engaged in any calorie restricted eating habits and she exercises no more than any other American mom.

By Japanese (and I imagine Chinese) standards she is the perfect weight for her size.

He Kexin is 4' 8" and weight 73 pounds but she is at least 15 years younger then my wife and is an Olympic athlete.

Your suggestion that she is unhealthy and that her coaches are engaging in unethical behavior to keep her unhealthy is obviously just your opinion based on no actual facts.

Your expectation of her weight and her body - especially your comments about her breasts - are a gross example of ethnocentrism which you have no place in journalism.  
Hi,the real reason behind this seemiling reasonable issue is American teams lost their gold medal which they thought belonged to them before the games.And where did you get that idea that China is not an open country so the government will forge those fake documents to prove the girls' age?Can I assume that because several famous American players are also much more famous for their doping so I can conclude that phelps also has the possibility in using doping?It is not a shame to lose the games but it is really a shame to write those shameful falsities.Shame on you!
Loser always seeks for excuse...shame on you
That's the best thing Mike has ever written.  Great article!

Michael Phelps ain't the greates Olympian ever, though.  Not until basketball is broken down into 20 separate events, so a Michael Jordan can grab 20 golds--like dribbling event, dunking event, 1/2-court game, full-court game, 3-point event, blocking event, half-court shot event.
Just a thought!  Instead of everyone questioning the age of the chinese gymnasts, maybe they should think about the fact that 16-18 year old girls with more experience lost a number of events to 11-12 year olds or younger.  I understand, a rule is a rule and we can not do anything about false documents, but hats off to those little girls if they are really that young and can compete at the same level as the older girls.
I knew Chinese Government can do anything they want to do. I am doubt about those girls ages in Gymnastics. I was told by friends that some Chinese changed their ID in order to get visa from other countries like US, Australia, UK.....
It is just inhumane and barbaric to starve these poor girls and work them to death.  Rules are there for a reason.  People will say Nastia wasn't the better gymnast but we played by the rules.  Olympians signify hard work with dignity and class.  To abandon the rules set for all Olympians should reflect negatively on any country.  I am proud to be an American!!  
This is certainly a good idea.  However, puberty is a process.  It's not a point of time in a female's life.  So, using it as a criterion could be difficult.  Of course, we can test the hormones to make sure that the onset of puberty occurred.  But, the onset of puberty itself is known to be varying depnendent on genetic, environmental and other factors.  The racial difference for the onset of puberty is known to be large.  Some articles suggested that the blacks tend to have early onset of puberty and the asians tend to have late onset.  Also, as you would expect, the nutrition intake would impact the onset of puberty.  There are countries that are relatively poor.  So, this will impact the opportunities for participating.  Well, this could be a problem.  And, even worse, when there is a criterion based on hormone testings, people will develop methods to mess with the hormones.  That will lead to more damage.  Also, when and how to test are always a problem.  Given these, I guess using puberty as a critrion may be a little challenging.

Minimum body fat and minimum weight are also problematic because of the various factors impacting these measures.  In some countries, it's just not too uncommon to have small body frame and light weight.

I don't agree. You want to set the minimum body-fat and weight requirements to block out some top "girls" so we American can win??  How about others also want to set the maximum height for playing basketball or volleyball?
Being Chinese, I was always smaller and at the age of 16 I was only 64 pounds and definitely didn't look my age. I think because of China's political structure and stories from the past where they aren't very open about their issues, people scrutinize them more compared to other countries. I'm sure they migh have forged documents for these girls but then again out of 1.3 billion people I'm sure there are also girls that are 16 and look 12, I might not live in China but I know that when I was 16, I could have passed as one of those girls.
All of these sound like great ideas. There isn't a way to fake someones weight. Age can be tampered with on fake documents. Tha much has been proven at this year's olympics. Weight, body fat, puberty, they all sound like great ideas. It would definetely level the playing field and promote these athletes to maintain a healthier lifestyle.
wow, it sure sounds like you know alot about what it takes to be a gymnast and compete in the world of competitive gymnastics. Why don't you go into all the gyms across america and crush the hopes of every little girl learning to tumble across the balance beam and say, hey, we'll only let you compete once you're body can't take it anymore.
I have yet to hear cries for weight limits for weight-lifters or summo-wrestlers that cite the physical risks of being overweight.  Is this a double standard, or have current age limits for female gymnasts been campaigned for by the MacDonald's corporation?
Boy did you nail it there! Stop tormenting these poor young bodies and let them mature properly like in any other sport! Then let them compete.
It does not speak well of China putting on such an impressive opening ceremony then just to get gold cheat. This is a world stage and all eyes are on China and the IOC. I read only the "English Speaking World" is bothered by this. Certainly we are not the only ones with morals and values. If you dared to falsify any athletes age on the American team you would be crucified. Thank you United States for playing by the rules. We all know you are all "Golden"
If the gymnast have to be 16 to compete, whats the age limit for the condoms their handing out lol!
Sour losers...  Pathetic writing.  Some people cannot take defeat, but to be so sour?  Chinese won fair and square.  They are brilliant athletes and have a fantastic sports program.  Moreover, Chinese are hard workers and phenomenally talanted in anything that requires skill.  USA used to be that way but laziness and mediocrity are taking over.  Give Chinese their dues - they are better in Olympic sports!
Depriving thin girl's right to compete sounds more like a communism to me. As Americans are stripped off the medals, its disgusting to see the extend they go to suggest ways to retain their might. If Americans couldn't lose their pride and blame everything from rain to age when they lose, its better for them to hide in the hut next time and not to compete with others. No wonder there are so many pathetic people there calling for a boycott to the games.  
It's not hard to believe that China would go to any lengths to lie about the ages of gymnasts, considering they have not allowed their citizens the right to free speech/protest after having their homes destroyed to build the ultimate Olympic village.  Beyond this, they have ordered at least one such person (elderly) to a re-education camp for a year for requesting a permit to protest.  They provided no information for days about the dancer who was injured and faces possible paralysis - all for what?  To construct an image which in no way resembles the reality of abject poverty for so many Chinese, and a total lack of respect for human rights.  They have made a mockery of what the Olympics is all about, so it's no stretch to envision them forcing their children to lie about their ages.  Shameful!
I really find this whole rant to be somewhat disturbing to tell you the truth. I'm an ex-competitive gymnast and therefore know all about the trials and tribulations these girls are enduring. Yes, we have a restricted diet but it is certainly no where near as horrible as 4000 to 1500. Infact, I recall eating Big Mac after practice with the coach's daughter. AND to be quite frank, I did have body fat test done before being allowed to compete... it was to make sure I had enough body fat for my organs to function properly and maintain good health but no more than that. In my opinion I see nothing wrong with this. It is simply assuring that a world class athlete is in top condition. How is this wrong?
Yes, gymnasts look young. But it is in no way unhealthy! I mean I could lift my 200lbs father at age 10. Unhealthy children cannot do this! I compelely  resent any suggestion about trying to delay puberty in competetors. Can we point to Dominique Daws? She was a gorgeous fully developed woman who's graceful and powerful tumbling only came after puberty! Bela himself said this!
Yes, gymnastics is a grueling sport and if one is to succeed, one has to give their whole self; heart, mind, and body. But I will say with 100% conviction that I would not take back one practice (even the one where I dislocated a shoulder, or practically tore my hamstring in two, or desimated my pad in my right knee) because of everything I got from being part of an amazing experience. I'm have been out of competition for 4 years now. I have normally developed hips and breasts (geez!) and my body has injuries but I know how to take care of them for the long term. I was part of a team. I had a family outside of my home. I had fun and a purpose growing up. It taught me the amazing level of determination and discipline I have today. I never give up on anything, I just work harder. I can say that is beacuse of gymnastics(I honestly can). I loved the sport. The individual effort and team comradery. It is beautiful and gritty all at the same time.  Watching these girls do these fantatics stunts only brings back the warm glow of memories from when my coach used to push me until I thought I would collasp; only to accomplish the next stunt and be feel so accomplished and be praised for my efforts.  How wonderful it felt to fly through the air like I had wings. The sport on its own was reward enough!Yes, there are things about the sport (as with any sport) that are a little less charming. Like how young you have to start and how demanding it can be psychologically... but as an grown adult I can say the rewards are far more worth it than anything else ever.
We are complaining because as Americans we are being bested in yet another field by the Chinese (Goodness me!) but to be honest I'm glad because for the sake of the sport, American gymnastics has been waning for the last 3 years. It is time we stepped it up a notch! So, take the defeat, recuperate, and go for it next time just that much harder!
As an end note: My bone density is just fine! I am on the low end of normal- but it is still NORMAL
And I say all of these things about gymnastics even after having my career ended by a double compound fracture to my left ankle during a practice where I completely botched a dismount from the uneven parallels...
I noticed Mary Lou Retton in the stands during one of the events.  I would be very interested to hear her opinion on this issue.  And whatever happened to Kim Zmeskal?
The chinese girls look young to me too. I was doubting about their age too. I can not say the age about He Kxin. But for Jiang Yuyuan (people doubt about her age too), I saw these videos today in youtube, It called "Dream Weaver Beijing 2008", it features China's 7 years preparation for the Beijing Olympic, including building projects and athletes training. In the later part of the first link, it said China started to select and train the young female gymnasts since 2003, Jiang Yuyuan was in the video. It seems in 2003 training camp, when a younger Jiang was asked how old she was among several other girls, she said 12. If she was 12 in 2003, then in 2008, she is 17. She was featured in the rest of the videos too. The video also featured Deng Linlin too, This Deng looked like a kid in the Olympic game too. It looks like they stayed in a training camp for years, and it was a camp that was for young girls who were selected from all over China to prepare the 2008 game. And Deng looked like the same then and now. While you can still argue that they lied about their age since the start, but if they lied since start, their age shouldn't show up as younger in 2006 and 2007. Mystery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8ZwHd2GA8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSbn0UQVG8o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPKfqA7rRw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB1a5KXXYpc&feature=related
Unfortunately, the video is in chinese.


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