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Mike Celizic

NBCSports.com contributor Mike Celizic provides his unique slant as he takes an offbeat look into the world of sports beyond the box scores.



Mussina is a Hall of Famer

Posted: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:07 AM

I’ve watched Mike Mussina for most of a career that ended Thursday, the last nine at fairly close range when he was playing for the Yankees. And it wasn’t until this year that I ever thought I’d write these words: Mike Mussina is a Hall of Famer.

 

I’ve got to credit – or blame – my friend, EastsideAl, for being forced to that conclusion. I’d always viewed Mussina through the lens of what he didn’t do. EastsideAl made me change the lens and think about what he has done.

 

The old lens showed a pitcher with great talent who always came up just short of the milestone by which we judge greatness. He obviously had the talent to win 20 games, but until this year had never won more than 19. Except for 1992, the first full season of his career, he never had a sub-3.00 ERA. He was the ace of Baltimore’s staff, but was basically the No. 3 starter in most of his years with the Yankees. Only once, in 1995 when he won 19 games, did he ever lead his league in any of the major pitching stats – wins, ERA and strikeouts.

 

To me, he was a superior pitcher but not a great one.

 

But in the middle of the 2008 season, EastsideAl started bombarding me with emails suggesting that Moose, as he was known to fans, was looking like a Hall of Famer. At the time, my friend suggested that all he needed was two more good years or three decent ones to finish with 300 wins, which would guarantee his spot in Cooperstown. But even without 300 wins, he was 270-153, 117 games over .500 for his career, and every other pitcher who won that many more games than he lost was in the Hall. (Get Mussina’s career stats here.)

 

I finally agreed that if Mussina won 20 games, I would have to think very seriously about voting for him. He did that this year, winning No. 20 on the final day of the season in what would be the final game he would pitch.

 

I can still come up with reasons not to vote for Mussina in five years when his name goes on the Hall-of-Fame ballot. The biggest is his career 3.68 ERA, which Bill Chuck of Billy-Ball.com points out is the second highest by any pitcher with 270+ wins. Red Ruffing, who ended his 22-year career with 273 wins in 1947, had a 3.80 ERA. Ruffing, who pitched most of his career for the Yankees, also won just 48 more games than he won, but he’s in the Hall of Fame.

 

Ruffing did win 20 or more games four times, but when he pitched, 20 wins wasn’t what it is today, and Ruffing never won more than 21. Given that in this era 17 wins is the new 20, Mussina comes off as a much better pitcher than Ruffing.

 

Chuck also unearthed some other interesting Mussina facts. One is that he pitched fewer games and gave up fewer walks than any other pitcher with 270 wins. And here’s the clincher, in Chuck’s words: “Of all the pitchers with 270+ wins, only Lefty Grove, Christy Mathewson, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson and Grover Cleveland Alexander have a higher winning percentage than Mussina's .638.” Moose’s winning percentage is 38th all-time. Among active pitchers, only Pedro Martinez (.684), Johan Santana (.681), Roy Oswalt (.668), Roy Halladay (.665), Cliff Lee (.661), Tim Hudson (.655) and Randy Johnson (.648) are better.

 

Those are all Hall-of-Famers. And if it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for Moose.

Just a couple of years ago, I couldn’t have imagined voting to put Moose in the Hall. Now, I can’t imagine not voting for him. By the standards of this or any era, he was one of the greats.

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Comments

How about the gold gloves? Not to shabby either. Some of those Baltimore teams he played on weren't very good, so he could have potentially won more games. I say he has a legitimate shot at the hall.
Since when is Cliff Lee a Hall of Famer?  Tim Hudson?  Please.  Roy Oswalt and Roy Halladay - maybe if they give us another 5 stellar years.  Its the Hall of FAME not the Hall of MEDIOCRE or even the Hall of VERY GOOD.
As an Orioles fan, Moose was one of the few bright spots on dismal teams. I think you can add to his case for the Hall that he played most of his career for a team that resided somwewhere near the cellar and he still won about 147 games with them. Good luck Moose!
I thank you for your feelings, I believe Mike Mussina to be real class act.  Since he was with Baltimore I thought he was a great guy and great pitcher, even more so when he came to the Yankees.  He should've had at least two World Series rings with the Yankees, still he really deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
I thank you for your feelings, I believe Mike Mussina to be a real class act.  Since he was with Baltimore I thought he was a great guy and a great pitcher, even more so when he came to the Yankees.  He should've had at least two World Series rings with the Yankees, still he really deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
Mike Mussina's retirement should fuel further discussion on the changing statistical landscape of today's pitchers.  They don't and won't pitch as deep into games, losing "win" opportunities more often than earlier counterparts.  The steroids' era will have diminished should pitchers' statistics.  Etc. So what are the new Hall of Fame thresholds?  250 wins?  275?  A .600 winning percentage? Maybe just .550, for pitchers like Bert Blyleven certainly deserve as many acolades as Mussina.  What about Jack Morris or Tommy John?  And what's the likelihood Johan Santana will match Mussina's win total?  Santana has been baseball's premier pitcher the past five seasons, still winning just 86 games during that span.  The Mets' lefty enters his 10th major league season with only 109 career wins.  Mussina's chance may come, but shouldn't before Blyleven and Morris.
Having the career he had during the steroids era, in the DH league, and in hitter friendly parks make his numbers all the more impressive.  Other than leaving the Orioles and Peter Angelos (can't blame him there) I can't think of any dissapointing action in the conduct of his professional life. A class guy in an often classless business.
Maybe Mussina is a Hall of Famer.  He was a terrific pitcheder and I always frowned when I saw my team was going to be facing him.  We'll see how the HOF voters judge him when the time comes.

I would say the jury is still out on the active pitchers you mentioned, with the exception of Randy Johnson.  As good as the rest of them are, let's not decide they're HOF worthy just yet.
Baseball's fascination with ancient history, standards, and records completely screws up the ability to judge players on their real value. Whether a pitcher wins 20 is not really on the pitcher - it's on the team. In Baltimore, during this age of the "closer", Mussina was gipped out of 20 a few times by blown saves by others, whereas in generations of old, he'd have finished several of those games and probably won that vaunted 20 a few times. Same with World Series rings or not.  No individual player on a team of 9 can be held THAT responsible for team outcomes - but writers and fans love to do it.  He should be in. Period.  Way to go Moose. Baltimore will be glad to take you back part time with weekends off if you're willing.
He is absolutely a "Hall of Famer", and I hope that all the writers who promote the major whinner Curt Shilling when he quits will vote for a player who has shown the other side.  He is a winner, in life and on the field.   Thanks for the great memories Moose!!!
A Philly fan who still wishes you would sign with us.
Unreal... get a grip. Cliff Lee, Tim Hudson, and Roy Oswalt ... hall of famers!!!! Your conclusion that Mussina  doesn;t appear to have HOF stats but aurguing that they are better than Red Ruffings only reinforces tha Mussina and Ruffing are the same ... good players elevated to HOF staus only because they played for the Yankees.
Elect Bert Blyleven to the Hall first. Then talk about Mussina
It doesn't hurt either that Moose was always a class act on and off the field.
i have to disagree. in my humble opinion, the HoF is a sacred place, intended for those who not only had sucessful careers, but moreso, were consistently excellent and dominant at their positions. sure, mussina had pretty good career stats and had good longevity, but he was not what i would call dominant at his position.

i think the hall has been watered down somewhat with the introduction of players with decent career stats, but not the best of the best.


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