Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

James, Carrollton, TX — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:14:47 GMT

So it is okay to cheat lie and steal as long as you can get away with it, that is what you are saying. It's okay the the Chineese lied on their documents becasue we can't do anything to change it. A lie is a lie, no matter how small or even if you can get away with it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

muffler — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:33:31 GMT

why bother having the Olympics if no one HAS to follow the rules. I say cancel them.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

EJ, Tennessee — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:40:29 GMT

When looking at the big picture, sure it doesn't matter how old she is. But the bottom line is that the rules right now say that gymnasts must be 16 to compete, and a country should not be able to cheat their way to a medal by using gymnasts who are younger and thus have certain advantages over older gymnasts (especially in women's gymnastics). If the US used under age competitors, you'd better believe that they would have been investigated and disqualified by now.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Olympic Fan, Massachusetts — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:41:33 GMT

In Gymnastics being small and "undeveloped" for females is an advantage. Many talented female gynasts have been completely thrown off by the physical changes associated with puberty. When your spinnig through the air and now suddenly have breasts and hips it changes the center of gravity wjich can affect the whole dynamic. Why the gripe you say? Well the gripe is that the rules are 16 and cheating in anyform is not an acceptable olympic ideal nor worthy of a gold medal.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jack Dough, Seattle, Wash. — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:41:35 GMT

Well... I think the "choice" is to do exactly what is being done, namely, raise a stink about it. Put pressure on the IOC to conduct some sort of an investigation and see if the host nation of the olympics has committed a fraud upon the atheletes and governments of every nation competing by fielding a team with 4 suspected gymnasts who do not qualify. Cheating is cheating is cheating.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

JH — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:04:39 GMT

I don't understand your the article... How can you claim that the Americans are being sore losers?

The age issue was a problem BEFORE the event. And before the US team made the mistakes that took them out of gold contention.

But does that matter? If the chinese team broke the IOC rules then no. There is no other way to view it. You break the rules and you lose your medal. Even the last place team moves up a spot.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John W. — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:16:29 GMT

I can't agree more. To add to your points, Chinese gymnasts have always look that young. The same question is raised almost every single Olympics. It is not an isolate incident just for the Beijing Olympics. I believe either the girls are younger than they claim themselves to be or they were drugged to keep their body the shape of a little girl. The IOC and FIG have always been ok with the Chinese team as long as their age records with them are consistent. What's the big fuss this time?

I guess the important difference this time is, this is the first time the Chinese girls ever achieved a team gold medal and team USA is defeated. However, the US team was not defeated by the Chinese team, but by themselves. So, get over it!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Alicia Hoffman, Tulsa, OK — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:21:12 GMT

It does matter how old she is. We (USA) have plenty of thirteen/fourteen year olds that are AWESOME too. But if China has to win by cheating, so be it. It's lame. If we have to play by the rules, they should too. One of those girls had teeth growing in (indication of loosing a baby tooth recently). How many 16 year olds don't have all of their adult teeth (with exception to the wisdom teeth). It does matter sir. As girls age their bodys change, their center of gravity change... So if all the other teams play by the rules, so should China. It's sad. They wanted Gold so bad they were willing to cheat for it. Whatev.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Eric Adams, Kansas City, MO — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:46:16 GMT

Do we really?

Yes, the gold was lost due to mistakes on the part of the american team.

But to just let it go... is the answer that the olympics committee wants to send?

You get caught doping you lose the medal. But its okay to get caught lying about the age of the girl.

In fact there is more of an American-centric egoism in the way that the original author is approaching this then in what should and needs to be done. If, and yes, it is an IF, if the chinese team did indeed put gymnasts younger then the age requirements, lied about it and covered it up, even if they forged the documents. Then ... they medal should be stripped from them.

Not because then the Americans would get the gold.

No. But because it is only proper that if you cheat. You do not deserve to win.

It is the same in any sport, and in any situation, no matter who would get the gold afterwords.

The answer is to NOT get over it, but instead for China to address the situation appropriately.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kaygo, Twin Cities, MN — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:57:35 GMT

Sorry Mike, I have to disagree with you. If there is an age requirement, there is an age requirement. In this case, it's not just because the younger girls might get hurt but also because they're more flexible than the older girls. If they're smaller, they can spin better, tumble better, have better balance. They also aren't too wrapped up in all the pressure at the younger ages. If they are 16, it will be interesting to see if they are at the Olympics as 20 yr olds and then 24 yr olds? It's women's gymnatics, not girl's gymnastics.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jane Joy, Seattle, Wash. — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:09:45 GMT

If it's ok for the Chinese to cheat, then it should be ok for Danny Almonte to cheat in Little League. If the chinese gymnasts are truly old enough, their parents would be beating down the media's doors to show additional proof - birth certificates, pictures, class pictures from each grade, announcements in the local papers dated 1992, copies of medical records for the mothers showing their dates in the maternity ward, etc. Instead we have a stonewall of silence. Cheating is cheating is cheating. The other teams (Japan, USA, Roumania, etc) followed the rules and left behind 14 and 15 year olds who might have been able to score higher point values.

Other athletes have to prove through inspections their bodyweight (boxing, rowing, etc), equipment (canoeing, javelin, yachting, etc), and their gender. Maybe we should return to the honors system of just taking the federations' word for it that the athletes meet weight, equipment and gender guidelines?

There is evidence in published reports from Chinese media in 2004, 2005 and 2006 listing younger ages that make the chinese gymnasts ineligible in A better reporter would track the reports down, visit the hometowns, interview the locals and get to the bottom of it. Instead, you'd rather give up.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

H. Nguyen, Chicago, IL — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:12:46 GMT

So What? This is about fairness! In a sport that favors age and youth, you have to play by the rule. The US has many elite gymnasts under 16 that could easily be put into a regiment and train for the Olympics. The Chinese gymnast no doubt, performed well in the events, definitely beat the US gymnasts. But when the playing field is not level, there will always be questions on the legitimacy of their win.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

mark white, tampa — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:19:22 GMT

Oh, so your solution is that if they are cheating, LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT???

That is moronic, and if that girl is a day over 14, I will eat my testicles, lol

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Chris Vincent, Cupertino, California — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:23:54 GMT

Age rules were broken - medals should be stripped - end of story. It's not griping; it's the bloody rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Richard Anderson — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:37:08 GMT

Sorry Celizik, you're wrong on this one. If even one of the Chinese gymnasts is underage it would be CHEATING! And no - the rest of the world doesn't have to "let it go at that" just because the Chinese government produces false documents. The IOC has the responsibility to investigate these claims and if true DQ the Chinese team. Whether it is drugs, being underage, judging bribes (remember 2004?), or any other form of cheating, the IOC must aggressively investigate to preserve the integrity of the games.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Pam, NY — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:40:25 GMT

So what you are supporting is cheating; forging documents is cheating, doping is cheating. It doesn't matter what team came in 2nd, the point is they are not following Olympic rules. Wether you think the rules are useful or not, anyone else not following the rules gets kicked out. Look at those who test positive for drugs and claim not to know they were being given to them. Why don't you just let them slide through also.

You have completely missed the point on why this is a terrible thing that the Chinese have done in the spirit of the Olympics.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Scott Johnson — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:46:25 GMT

Doesn't matter that the Chinese out performed their competition. The FACT remains that they broke the rules, whether it's a fair rule or not..doesn't matter. If they discover that they are underaged, they're gold medal should be voided.

We all know that if had been the Americans in their place, the world would be calling for their heads.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mario Cairo — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:56:57 GMT

Well if the fair play that is always put up for children to play and abide by is not good for the Olympics; then why should they be good for lets say track and field or basebol.......so lets give back the medals taken away to the track and field folks like marion jones and the rest after all what is a little substance enhancement amongst Olympians any ways right?!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mario Cairo, CA — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:59:00 GMT

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Thomas Spearman — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:01:16 GMT

The rules are supposed to be the rules, regardless of their perceived fairness or effectiveness. In the TDF the riders have to give two samples and they can be dismissed if one is found to be cheating. Let's see the birth certificates of the Chinese babies and let them convince us they are legit. Marion Jones and Floyd Landis broke the rules and lost their medals. I don't disagree about the level of performance given by the Chinese children but the Jones and Landis efforts looked good at the time of the event as well. The Olympics are supposed to be played by the rules and the same rules should apply to all, not just those that are willing to compete legally within them.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John W. — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:03:45 GMT

I can't agree more. To add to your points, Chinese gymnasts have always been looking that young. The same question was raised almost every single Olympics. It is not an isolated incident just for the Beijing Olympics. I believe either the girls are younger than they claim themselves to be or they were drugged to keep their body the shape of a little girl. The IOC and FIG have always been ok with the Chinese team as long as their age records with them are consistent. What's the big fuss this time?

I guess the important difference this time is, this is the first time the Chinese girls ever achieved a team gold medal and team USA is defeated. However, the US team was not defeated by the Chinese team, but by themselves. So, get over it!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Teresa C — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:05:46 GMT

Hmmm, Mike,

I think you sorely miss the point. Everything you have written can and should be used as a counter-argument to your point(s). You argue, so they cheated--get over it. If the American girls had been perfect then you can complain. Then you go on to admit the advantage to playing younger because of the change in center of gravity which is why this is a prepubescent sport.

As a mother who put her daughter in gymnastics before she could even begin to consent, your argument is specious when you state the girls want to win to--so if they lie and cheat, so be it. First, these girls do not have a choice, either to participate in the sport or to tell the truth about their age.

I am not supporting the Karolyi's in their continued complaints, I agree that it is time to end the complaining but I also do not support your argument which is equally flawed for the reasons I've stated and many more.

Bottom line is cheaters should never be rewarded and if it is becomes apparent that the Chinese have cheated the situation should be handled appropriately by FIG.

P.S. Has anyone checked the floor to see if it was designed with less give; so that, bigger (and age appropriate gymnasts) may be propelled out of bounds while slighter (and perhaps younger) gymnast do not suffer the same fate--these are just things that make you go hmmmm.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John, San Francisco, CA — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:09:11 GMT

Just curious - if being young has an advantage, shouldn't that apply to the men's side too? Shouldn't it also apply to style iceskating of the winter games? I am simply not that persuaded by the perceived "advantage" yet.

By the way, by reading your article, one may mistakenly think Bela Karolyi is the team coach. Is he? I thought Liang Chow is the team coach.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

sheldon, cleveland, ohio — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:11:09 GMT

Totally agree.
You won't believe what the latest complains the Karolyis had. They complained that the Chinese volunteers working in the stadium distracted Alicia. Remove them or US women's gymnastics team will lose again and again alter.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Rob, Omaha, Nebraska — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:17:01 GMT

Sorry, Mike. I don't agree with you on this one. Cheating is cheating. And I'd like to see you express this opinion face-to-face to each one of those U.S. Women gymnasts who've trained hard for hours and hours, and played by the rules. It doesn't feel right at all, no sir.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

JD Johns — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:26:59 GMT

Mike, What a tool you are.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Vince Florida — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:29:36 GMT

You are wrong about age it is important sets boundaries on the competing teams, so there is a level playing field. US also has younger girls that would have made the team but kept off do to age. Would you be less likely to saction a sa a fighter clearing heavier competing in lower weight class because the scales in one nation say he's 100bls when in every other nation he tips the scale at 125 or 140 lbs.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

jerry lininger, Arizona — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:31:04 GMT

Hi! well if this young lady is younger than she says well i am sorry but rules are rules! if the United States had a 14 year old who said they were 16 years old then the whole world would be on our case! This is just as bad as dopping and it should be reviewed and be took cared of. If this happens nowthen the next Olympics we will have the same problem. i do hope the China does have the girls at the right age for they deserved to win but if they are not they should be honorable about there decision. China has always said "Honor before glory" yet there honor is in jeopordy here. Thankd you

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

asdashdj, davis, ca — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:33:10 GMT

Fist of all Americans have to agree that most Chinese are much older than they look like. And for this game, shorter and smaller has advance. Even the girls in American team are very small and short. This is the requirement for this game. I have a Chinese friend. She looks like a high school student. In fact, she is postdoc and almost 34 years old. This really shocked everyone around her. She looks really young.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Gymnastics mom — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:43:35 GMT

This doesn't have anything to do with how the Americans did. The bottom line is whether China followed the rules. And if they are lying about these girls' ages, then that is blatant cheating and a disrespect to the world. If you break the rules, aka cheat, you should be disqualified. Two examples of this happening in the Olympics are the American boxer who missed weigh in. They took a hard line approach with this, and he was disqualified from competing. Also, look at the Chinese swimmer who was disqualified for a false start. The only reason that these gymnasts are different is because it hasn't been proven that they are under 16. If these girls are under 16, then think about the lengths that China went to in order to fool the world. If that is the case, they should not only be disqualified, but banned from international competition.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A East, NY — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:45:33 GMT

Rules are rules, and if He is under the age rule limit then it is cheating. Plain and simple. Regarless of how the American, or any other team performed, cheating is still cheating. In my opinion this is no different that doping. The IOC needs to enforce the rule or elimate the rule if they can't.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jane Cursie New York NY — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:45:54 GMT

This misses the point. If the Chinese (or any other country) are falsifying the ages of thier gymnasts, then they are at an unfair advantage in selecting their teams. The result in 2004, for example, may have been different if the US squad could have added a then 14-year old Nastia Liukin. If the age restriction is being ignored by some, then why have it? The best athletes should represent their counttes. If this age restriction had been in place in 1976, Nadia could not even have competed in the games, much less get that first 10.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Winn Winn — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:55:52 GMT

Hey Mike, I think you should NOT write anymore article or comment about anything from now on. And MSNBC.com should not publish any of his article. Mike Celizic doesn't have the integrity and honesty within his writing, he agreed to cheat and dishonesty to a world class event. This is not about China's Team won GOLD neither US team with SILVER. Olympian is not ONLY about GOLD medal, it's also about HONESTY and SPORTMANSHIP in their heart.
Hey Mike, I wonder how long you have live on this earth ? Is Chinese government trustable ?
I have no doubt that He Kexin is a great gymnast's athlet, however, every event have its rule and regulation, everyone have to follow it. You might not agree with me, but do your homework before post any of your article. As you said at the begining of the article, "I don't know how old He Kexin" .. then STOP right there. You can follow the below link to the latest article about He Kexin..
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news;_ylt=ApwNXO7HFn4NR5j131Zov3SVTZd4?slug=ap-gym--underagechinese&prov=ap&type=lgns

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

steven, LA, CA — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:57:09 GMT

Some people may think ripe grapes are sour when they can't get them.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mark, Seattle, WA — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:14:10 GMT

So pointing out clear violations of the rules is "whining". Good to know.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jay, Boston MA — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:16:48 GMT

Agree!

If a girl has the ability to complete in this game, go for it! Who give you the right to say if one is too old or too young? No age discrimination!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mark, Seattle, WA — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:31:20 GMT

Danny Almonte is a "disgraced hero" but He Kexin is not. Why is that exactly? Because it's a "bizarre" case? Because she has the documents, "forged or otherwise"? Because now "isn't the time" to be arguing about it? Because the US "made mistakes"?

I'd say the rule is pretty black and white. By your logic those little leaguers should have all just quit crying because after all, they did strike out a lot.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Rhett St. Louis — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:05:29 GMT

I'm going to have to disagree with you. I think if there is sufficient evidence of 'age doping' then there needs to be something done. I don't care if it was the US, Romania, China, or whoever, if you break the rules, then you don't compete, simple as that. I can almost promise you that if it were the US people would be screaming bloody murder.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Still griping in MO, USA — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:12:22 GMT

so China couldn't wait until 2012? maybe the US has some extraordinary 14 year olds who weren't given a chance to cheat, I mean compete this year - everyone has to play by the same rules and be held accountable!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

B. Tong — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:35:47 GMT

When the Chinese lost, the Chinese think their athletes were not good enough, not fast enough and not strong enough. On the contrary, when we lose, we say the other cause us to lose. How could we get respect from around the world?

The indirect message from Bob Costa and comments from Martha and Bela Karalyi makes me sick. I don't see their comments during competition would help the US team in any way. Since 1984, on TV at least, I'd never seen Martha or Bela showed any support when the athlete was under-performed. By the way, who's Shawn Johnson personal trainer?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Alicia Hoffman, Tulsa, OK — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:38:57 GMT

Why do we need to get over it? So...we should always turn a blind eye to cheating? The age restrictions were put in place for several reasons. And believe me, the USA has plenty of 13 and 14 year olds who would have made this team if they were older. NO! We won't get over it!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

DJ Breslin, Portland, OR — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:50:35 GMT

I completely disagree with this. I understand how it might seem like sour grapes, but I submit that rules should be followed irrespective of anything else. And while the US team might have made mistakes, you could make a case that a rule abiding properly aged Chinese team would have made mistakes as well, thereby leveling the playing field. This is my opinion and I don't care about the Olympics at all.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Judy Mackey, Crosby, TX — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:07:24 GMT

I'm with you, the Karoli's are taking away from what the girls accomplished and bottom line is the Chinese didn't beat us because of age, they won because they hit their routines. I personally think our girls did a great job but it was not gold medal worthy and I would bet the girls would agree. There has always been cheating in the olympics and we are as guilty of that in various events as the rest of the world so lets move on.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Gregory, NJ — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:10:21 GMT

you have a good point here. Let's move on.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Aaron, Edmond OK — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:25:27 GMT

I don't think this has anything to do with sour grapes on the US part, but more on the rules and the interest of fair play. No one should be able to subvert the rules, falsify documents, commit fraud and get away with it. What are we teaching the world if China gets away with it. I guess it's good news for Canada when their underage skiing sensation gets to win the gold because the government created a false birth certificate (he says sarcastically). Even if the China team came in dead last, or didn't even qualify it would still be wrong. The fact that evidence and a country with a history of falsifying documents for their athletes (a former Chinese gymnast Yang Yun won double bronzes in Sydney and later confessed she was only 14, not 16 as her passport/government claimed) and they will apparently going to get away with it...again...bothers me and in my opinion goes against everything the Olympics are about, namely sportsmanship and competition. If there was no wrong doing, then well played China, you performed well and deserve your medals, however, if China cheated (didn't follow the rules) then an example needs to be set. When you allow it to happen you condone it. So Mr. Celizic, there is harm in letting it go. I don't care about a US medal, I do care about the integrity of the Olympics!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Vince Florida — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:33:23 GMT

Just a few more words from me, there are flexiblity issue the older a young girls. This is why having young girls on the time is so desired. If this girl who is so talented and is worthy of the honors look again at her in two or three years to see if she really has the tallent or it was a age thing.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

barbo — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:35:21 GMT

Yes,nothing will be resolved now, but should be later. If all the other countries play by the rules, then so should China. FIG should adopt a different method for proving age, just as other organization do to screen for doping.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A Mom — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:09:55 GMT

If athletes have Golds stripped due to doping then they should have them stripped for being under-aged. A rule is a rule. Everyone knows that child isn't sixteen. Any mom can look at her and tell you that. All Olympians should be playing by the same rules and China isn't following those rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ming — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:17:56 GMT

It is ridicules to judge a person's age based on the weight and appearance. I am a 37 years old dad with two kids, weight under 130. But people are telling me that I look like a college student under 25 years old. If you judge my age based on my face, you will be totally wrong.

I have seen a video taped in 2003, which showed how some Chinese women’s gymnastics were chosen. Can 2003 tape be a lie?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Chris Barrett, Pittsford, NY — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:22:17 GMT

Rules are rules. Cheating is cheating. Any breaking of rules create an advantage for the rule breaker, if it wasn't so - a competitor wouldn't attempt or need to CHEAT. What is the sense of competition if rules are not followed. People, teams, organizations, and countries that cheat have to live with the knowledge that they did, and the guilt they they have won at the expense of their honesty, integrity, morality, and capibility.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Busker P. — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:02:43 GMT

yes, i agree, very very bad sportmanship. i am also really tired of that one nbc commentator who can't stop saying that watching the chinese girls is like watching a little kid play on the playground. not to mention, the karolyis' are just upset they can't have 14 yr old american girls; bela coached nadia cominici to win when she was 14...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Stormi, Ft Worth, TX — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:59:47 GMT

I hope this incident and the attempts for "age doping" comes back and bites China, IOC and IGF in the rear. I believe if you write an article about someone's age (which is important here) you are liable. With that, I hope, 10 years from now, the young ladies hiccup and state their real age.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

DeeDee — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:13:22 GMT

http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=kids&MsgID=1235296
The photo/video was taken in 2003, the subtitle shows their age at the time.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Shamed American — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:43:10 GMT

Thanks Mike. I'm really tired of NBC complaining about the age (especially Bela). The truth was the American team lost fair and square. They made mistakes. It was clear! We can't try to nitpick to find excuses on why we lose. This arrogance is shameful!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

ttishi alex — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:10:50 GMT

then get rid of the rules! The rule is 16 yrs and its been documented they are younger plus what really bothers me is the Chinese govt who in seeking "perfection" and gold is willing to bypass rules, this is only one example

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John R, Chicago, IL — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:15:15 GMT

So you're stating that nobody should care if He is only 14, but then go on to affirm that allowing 14 year old girls back into the sport is problematic and that those younger athletes have an unfair advantage. That just makes no sense.

What if she was added to the team because they didn't have any 16 year olds who could perform at that level?

What if that last spot she filled would have been filled by a 16 year old who scored poorly, brought down team morale, and caused a loss?

The idea that the Chinese government would need to stoop to rigging a team with an underage athlete is pathetic at best and is a damning example of a petty and corrupt political system if it's true.

If she's too young then the Chinese team should be disqualified, not because any other particular team lost, but because they broke the rules of the competition. Any other action, or inaction, dilutes the credibility of the games. Next you'll say they should allow people to violate those inconvenient weight class rules or 'just a little doping is alright by me'...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Philip, Oro Valley, AZ — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:36:49 GMT

So you're saying that we should just assume that everything, even the most obvious deceptions, should be accepted as truths, realities, facts. Should the world just allow lies to permeate the fabric of society and law until there is no longer a distinction between fact and fiction? What nonsense. Collusion in a lie, in deception does not validate that lie, and the world will be a sorrier place if world citizens, governments and organizations all collude in lies that draw humankind further into a quagmire of confusion and ignorance. If this writer's purpose has been to see who is awake on this planet, who sees this as inexcusable, unjust and fraudulent behavior, then I applaud him. If he truly believes what he writes, then he is deluded and deceived, and has lost touch with any kind of reality.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Far trade practices in Detroit, MI — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:13:13 GMT

You get over it. It is ridiculous to have CHILDREN this young, having that much pressure put on them. It had nothing to do with winning or losing. It jsut shows what type of country our CEO's are trying to force us to trade with. They are all about propeganda. And propeganda is generally spelled, L-I-A-R. This just adds on to the digust of using a lip singer, because the real girl who sang her heart out, is not pretty by their standards. China is just one fat lie after another. Disgusting.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Wang Wei, beijing, china — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:21:27 GMT

age-cheat
drug-cheat

what's the difference?
both are cheats.

Either have rules
& enforce them.
Or do away with them completely, & have a level playing field.

If a government issued a certificate certifying its athletes as drug clean
- would we accept that?

Not on your life!

same with age-cheats.

your argument is extremely disingenious.

I hope that you can rethink your stance.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John, MI — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:35:35 GMT

Its more about the fact that at 14 her body really isn't developed enough for what they are putting her through.

Yes the american girls could have won' that competion regardless without the mistakes, but honestly you think this is ok? Cheat to win, regardless of the health of our athletes

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Gary Leeks — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:35:43 GMT

"She’s got the documentation – forged or otherwise – that says she’s of legal age. We’ve no choice to let it go at that."
We DO have a choice. We CAN question it and with good reason.
Maybe you have bought into the control the Chinese seem to have over media. Maybe you think the IOC is the arbiter of fairness. Maybe you just have a 'give up' attitude.
If the rules were knowingly broken by the Chinese and the facts subsequently covered up, the 'let's give up' attitude is certainly not appropriate, at least not at this stage of the scandal. We have a right and an obligation to get at the facts.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John Farver — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:43:45 GMT

We shouldn't complain about the medal but it just goes to show that China is just putting on a front. Between this and all the other flubs seen and still yet unseen China is still China.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Lisa Clark, Pittsburgh, PA — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 23:10:46 GMT

I am not so sure I agree with you on this one, Mike. There is such a thing as fairness and no matter whether some choose to state that there is no such thing as fair, then why have sports -- and other competitions in the first place? There is a line to be drawn between knowing about a participant's age and making the mistake by letting an athlete slip through the loopholes. Believe me, I have a very observant eye and counted 4 or 5 mistakes that were made by most -- if not all of the Chinese athletes on the balance beam and horse exercises, particularly. So the American team was not the only one that experienced "...several costly mistakes and butt plants and falls...".

Look at the men's gymnastics team, for instance. Prior to the day that the women's gymnastics team performed, Americans Sasha Artemev and Jonathan Horton both perfected different routines in the men's gymnastic team competition, done on the horse and the high bars. The points taken off for taking a small step forward on the dismount, were substantial for the American team, while when the Chinese athletes experienced the same problem with their dismounts, very little to no points were taken off. During the narration of the event, it was stated by one of the announcers that the Chinese men's coach threatened to throw himself off a building, if his team did not win the gold, because for him, it was more of a dishonor. Personally, I would much rather be fair, than intimidated.

So don't tell me that our gymnastics team was treated fairly, when all of the judges wimp out in preference of the Chinese team, by ignoring the mistakes made in their routines.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

April, Minnesota — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:19:44 GMT

Aaron, do your research before you post something that's not true.

It wasn't a "former" Chinese gymnast that was underage in Sydney. It was Kim Gwang Suk from North Korea.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mike, Novi, MI — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:00:29 GMT

There is no way that she is 16; her adult teeth haven't even come in yet. There are rules for a reason. Putting young girls through this kind of training hurts their bodies for life after gymnastics. Underage gymnasts should be disqualified just like dopers are. The Chinese won gold not by talent since the other gymnasts were probably just as good when they were 14, but on the unequal advantage of competing before puberty.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Donna Osman — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:30:15 GMT

While I agree that the Americans didn't help themselves with the errors they made, it is and would be unnerving to anyone competing in any sport, that some of the players don't follow the rules. Rules are rules and if it were Americans who cheated, under any circumstance, they would be eliminated as would their teammates and coaches. How many sixteen year olds do you know who are missing teeth and waiting for the tooth fairy?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Joe, Buffalo, NY — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:48:51 GMT

An anti-American column from MSNBC ... what a suprise. NBC and all its spin-offs are jokes as 'news outlets' and this article is further proof. Another example of the blame America first style of journalism that NBC and its affiliates have spewed out over the last few years.

Here's a tip to all NBC writers, go back to mindlessly praising Obama and don't try to cover anything objective like sports, which you obvously know nothing about, you witless lobotomized kool-aid drinking hacks.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Betania Jerome — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:06:13 GMT

The American's made mistakes but we all know two of those Chinese girls don't look a day over 12. A rule is a rule. Nastia would have been on the 2004 team if it hadn't been for that rule. If the USA would have tried to pull what the Chinese are pulling now we would be in hot water. In the individual finals they have robbed the US. Chen fell off her vault and still got a medal. He tied with Nastia on the uneven bars and He ended up with the gold today. It is unfair that nastia had to go up against a 12 year old! I hope their medals are taken away. That is what they deserve. We all know the judges have been completely unfair and I hope it all comes to light! I think this will be a repeat of 2002 Winter Olympics.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A. Harris, Paducah, KY — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:54:57 GMT

I couldn't disagree with your logic more. Anyone who watched girls gymnastics KNOWS at least 2 of the Chinese girls WERE NOT 16 years of age. The sheer audacity of the Chinese coaches is mindblowing. It insults one's intelligence. They blatantly broke the rules and everybody and their dog knows it. If you have an age rule it needs to be enforced. Period. Otherwise, do away with the rule. I hate that the IOC is probably not going to have the guts to call their hand on this issue. What's wrong with calling them just what they are. LIARS! It sets a terrible precedent and encourages others to cheat, and why not if no one calls your bluff?
Also, I've said it for years, we ought not to field a boxing team in future Olympics unless, and until, they make some drastic revisions of the judging system. I've gotten to the point I don't care to watch Olympic boxing, it just makes my blood boil. The hypocrisy takes away from the integrity and spirit of the games.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jenny — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:46:15 GMT

Wow, i feel like i hear the phrase "rules are rules" a lot. The IOC has already confirmed their ages so obviousley this should show they are following the rules. Are people suggesting that the IOC are a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're doing? For some reason people still think they are right in believing that the gymnasts are too young. Most Americans won't be able to tell the difference between teenage asian girls. Just admit it, most Americans can't even tell the difference between which country most asians are from. And for practicing too young; Do you think Shawn Johnson didn't train hard as a 10 or 12 year old to get to where she is now? I think this has nothing to do with age and has to do with the a culture where people want to see the best fall. I can't believe so many people have jumped on the bandwagon. I don't think people will be happy until they see the medal stripped because they want to be right about something. You can question it all you want, just don't slander girls who have worked so hard.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John Doe — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:52:16 GMT

My Chinese friend believes that it's ok to cheat because the age rule is wrong. He says Chinese care more about hard work than than if they are under age. Essentially it is ok what they did. We've seen it in the past and will continue to see it in the future. There are even worse abuses than this. In several events the Chinese were clearly given preference and clearly won when they shouldn't have. (Trampoline was an obvious one)

The difference is that China is supporting and pushing such things because of there nationalist and populistic mentality. In general Chinese have an inferiority complex(admitted by my Chinese friend and other Asian friends have similar issues) and so they see this is a way to prove to the world there prowess.

Essentially he says that a fake somebody is better than a real nobody. So fair play doesn't seem to be a moral issue with the Chinese. The government does it to unite the nationalistic feelings. What is unfortunate is that it's so obvious in some cases and so many people deny it. Lets just pretend it's ok?

I can promise you that if the tables were turned china would be whining about it as would other countries. We all know there is rampant cheating going on but what I can't stand is the fact that the Chinese government is directly involved. I can understand not wanting to loose on your home turf but Jesus Christ!.

In any case it doesn't matter because the Chinese will get away with it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Just Mike, Southwest NH — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:37:38 GMT

Why does a forged passport not alarm you MC? After they CHEATED by faking the footprint fireworks during the opening ceremony nothing surprises me. And I was born there 53 years ago.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Pissed off Person, Manchester, NH — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:28:26 GMT

This issue just shows how ignorant the general American public is (I am not saying all of you are). If you people have not notice, or even bother to care, Asian people in general look a LOT younger than Westerners. First of all, they have smaller frames and they eat way healthier foods (not just fried chicken).They also age slower. I personally was 4'11" and weighed 75lbs when I was 17. My dad was still 5'0" when he was 16.

Look, none of US has solid proves that He is under 16, so people, PLEASE, PLEASE stop saying things like OMG, she's totally not 16 coz she doesn't look like a typical, big 16 year old westerner. Really, you have no right to say that, because, you people of course knows nothing about Chinese people.

(not meant to offend anyone, just getting piss at SOME ignorant comments and people, bela karolyis for example)

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kim, Marion, IN — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:22:08 GMT

Kind of sounds like "the girl that got raped - she was asking for it".....a rule is a rule, a law is a law, and if someone breaks it they should be punished or kicked out or whatever. No exceptions. The person behind them should move into their place. It has nothing to do with whether the US was next in line or someone from the moon was. They lied - she should be disqualified. Sure, they were good, they worked hard, and when they are old enough to qualify they should then enter the Olympics - just like everyone else, but not be given a medal because they lied their way into it. What if all of our 12 and 13 year olds started driving without a license just because they "say they are 16". Wake up people, rules are there for a reason.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

john miller — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:04:55 GMT

There is definitive proof that several of these gymnasts are under 16 and thus ineligible. Why should the IOC, or the American public, ignore this cheating. The U.S. and several other countries also have underage gymnasts who might well have medaled in these games.

To be honest, this article might easily be the stupidest that I've ever read on a website, and that is a tough feat to accomplish. It sounds like the same idiocy that was being put forth 30 years ago about the cheating East German swimmers.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Bonnie Kidd, Ocean Springs, MS — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:10:55 GMT

Today, August 21, MSNBC reports that the IOC is taking a second look at the real age of He Kexin. It will be interesting to see what happens if it turns out that she was competing on forged documents and that she is actually 14 years old, as the media have reported. I think China should not get away with cheating, if they have cheated. I think the USA should get the team gold medal and Nastia Liukin should get the gold that she was cheated out of. Fair is fair; if there are rules in place, EVERY competitor should abide by them.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

kat ray, nashville, tin — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:18:16 GMT

The American team did have a lot of problems during the team competition, but that shouldn't keep everyone from playing by the rules. One of the Olympic mottos is FAIR competition. If the IOC and FIG let the go then it is saying to every other Olympic athlete, go ahead and dope!! We will just look the other way. Olympians get stripped of their medals everyday for steroid use, why not for age abuse? So, if the Chinese are stripped of their team gold (as they should be if they lied and cheated) then the women's team should be happy that they played fair and won the silver despite injuries and poor performance. Let the gold medal stand remain empty and let good sportsmanship win... for once!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

metgirl — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:40:18 GMT

cheating and changing ages to win is the same as someone taking steriods. You are doing both to try to win. The rules are rules and if someone breaks them they should not be rewarded for it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ralph Connor, Daegu, Korea — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:47:24 GMT

I still think the main point is being missed. It's not about the rules nor is it about taking a jab at the atheletes to slight them in any way. It's about pandering to the mindset that many societies have developed concerning what we force children to do whether it be in sports, education, child labor, or human trafficking. Maybe some of you don't see the realtion but where do we draw a line and start letting children be children!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kenneth W. Regan, Amherst, NY — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:47:24 GMT

Let's put this a different way. The only people for whom governments may acceptably forge passports are intelligence agents under deep cover. Hence if she visits e.g. Britain she should be liable to being detained as a spy. Hey, that's a great idea: she can star in a new James Bond movie titled "Under Deep Cover" and have scenes where she eludes Bond with tumbling passes and acrobatics over buildings...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

B Janecek, Dubuque, IA — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:50:43 GMT

My question is this? If it's O.K. for your country to lie about your age (and granted China hasn't been proven of this yet), what else is it O.K. for a young woman to lie about? What does this teach our young people? These athletes are their heros. They look up to these athletes for strength in their own endevours. If indeed the Chinese altered this young woman's age records, the Chinese should be penalized. Unforuntatley for He, her medals would be stripped. And how will that affect her for the rest of her life?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

JAGER Little Rock — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:52:27 GMT

as usual celzic runs his pie hole and out comes nothing worth hearing. The rules apply. Anyone with any knowledge of this sport knows that age is a critical issue. And if all countries are pushing in 14's or 13's then the field is level, the girls are injured and Celzic is right. But only if everyone plays by the same rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tom DeStella — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:53:20 GMT

Does not surprise me from "open Mike"...Celzic has a disdain for American and it's success, period! We've seen his articles and it's no surprise he's an anti-american, of sorts, and just another liberal media hound dog. Really tired of it. Oh yea...better investigate the Chinese weightlifters as well cause there's another fox in the hen-house.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Debbie Short Mount Bethel,PA. — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:54:50 GMT

First- I don't think the chinese women did beat us, I thought the scoring was outragous and definetly bias!!! I think the IOC ought to do the right thing and strip the metals for the indivigual and team golds! Rules are made for a reason and they apply to everyone.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Amelia M, Philadelphia PA — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:57:47 GMT

So if it's OKAY for the Chinese to fabricate their ages, than it's OKAY for athletes to be doping as well. Same thing right, cheating, lying all to get a better 'color' medal. Marion Jones should regain the Olympic medals she was stripped of by the IOC than too. It's OKAY to cheat! Let's teach our kids that new valuable lesson. Disgusting! Cheating is Cheating, there is no gray area. Lying is Lying. Rules are Rules! Regardless of what medal the American Women received (Silver shines pretty darn brightly too folks), it's a disgrace to the sport to let this slide. Perhaps the USA or Romania or Canada or Russia had a 13 year old girl that would have crushed every last opponent...but they played by the rules and didn't fabricate passports and dates and ages. It's a shame for the young girl in the middle of this controversy, she just did what they told her, but check back with her in two years and ask her how old she is and I bet she slips up and says 16... They should definitely suspend these coaches and others that went along with this LIE! And saying that the only reason people are concerned about this now is bc of the US' 2nd place, is just insane. Of course if anyone had suspected the US of cheating the entire world would be up in arms!! Give me a break. And you Mr. Celizic, I question your morals! Wow. Something tells me your a bit of a cheat yourself!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Etienne — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:57:59 GMT

The Chinese team should be disqualified if the accusations are proven and she should lose her medals as the rules are to be followed as they are established. If not then why have rules? The worst rule was the one tie breaker that cost Natsia a Gold. Ties are ties. Folow the rules or be excluded. The Chinese team and the gymnast should be banned from the next games also if proven.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

S, Dallas,TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:00:42 GMT

You have to consider the source of the article. An old jock sniffer that was an english major in college.
Had to write about sports because too pathetic to play and if he wrote nice things the jocks wouldn't beat the crap outta his wimpy ass. Now just way past his prime so tries to be controversial. So yea--if someone does ever beat the crap outta the old drunk--you can bury him in a marchbox. Is that a metaphor??

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

David, New York, NY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:01:31 GMT

This is ridiculous. How can ANY SPORTS WRITER sit there and look at the mountain of evidence piling up and honestly say the Karolyis have nothing to complain about? I guarantee you the same sports writers are the one's who are calling Clemen's disqualification from the Hall and willing to toss Barry Bonds into the ocean. Cheating is cheating. You don't follow the rules you should go down in flames period and an example should be made of you.

The whole POINT of the Olympics is the spirit of competition. Lolo Jones was so gracious when she said she didn't deserve anything, if she couldn't clear all the hurdles she can't possibly be the best. Dara Torres, held up the entire lineup for her Semi-Final because a fellow competitor, someone she barely knew and wasn't even a factor in the race had a "wardrobe malfunction"

Then we have the Chinese Gymnast, so blatantly obvious they're underage. Thankfully the American team was so gracious. Alicia Sacramone said it best "no she doesn't look like she's 16 but then again I don't look like I'm 20."

How fast was someone from the State Department on the phone with Bela Karolyi telling him the STFU? No one dares criticize the host nation of 1.3 billion hungry consumers for fear they could be shut out of trade with the government that governs those 1.3 billion people.

The IOC sat on it's fat butt without doing anything for far too long. It'll hang a Vietnamese gymnast out to dry because she took a PMS medication but when the host nation, the most populous country in the world, the most up and coming nation, the one who "saving face" is most important to blatantly cheats, they do jack squat until there is sooo much rancor they have no choice.

And then we have MSNBC sports writers. Part of NBC, broadcasters of the games. Daring to say the Karolyi's are whining.

These same sports writers who LOVE to bash the dopers from MLB's juiced era and shoot every Tour de France doper on site.

WAKE UP MORONS, CHEATING IS CHEATING

The He Kinxe should be stripped of all of her medals. She should also be banned from London 2012, specifically because she was so arrogant and dismissing the claims that's she underaged, in other words, she bought into and is perpetuating the lie. The entire Chinese Gymnastic's team should be stripped of their medal for the team event. The other two gymnast suspect of being underage should also be investigated and they should also be stripped if need be.

An example has to be made. Trade treaties be damned, the Chinese need to be embarrassed.

And if you think for one minute they wouldn't do anything like this, i.e. give them the benefit of the doubt, how many different aspects of the Opening Ceremony were admitted fakes?

I wouldn't put it past the Chinese to cheat like they did in Women's Gymnastics. Bottomline.

And no I'm not biased against Chinese or racist, I am Chinese, and it is this fact that makes me fully understand what the Chinese Government is capable of.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Angela N., Rockwall, TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:03:09 GMT

Rules are rules. I don't care is the person is chinese, american or whatever nationality. Each country must follow the rules. If not, you lose the medals. Do we not remember the track star that just lost her medals from the US that was caught doping? If you don't follow the rules, you lose. We all lose in the end. That's what is wrong with this country...the rules apply to everyone else but me syndrome

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Leon, Richmond, VA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:04:45 GMT

Oh Gosh. America, stop griping that China is cheating. We're just mad cause we can't beat supposedly 14 year olds. Hey Chris Barrett and all you other losers that judge whether they should get gold or not. I want to see you try to do it. Do you know how much strength it takes to do the flips and ect? I do, cause I actually can do it. What about Canada, Saudi Arabia and other countries buying athletes. Do you kill them about it? NO! Y'all are just bad losers.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Please stop griping America, USA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:06:32 GMT

To A Mom:
You must be a terrible parent then. Surfing the web when you should be parenting

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kevin, Grand Rapids, MI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:11:42 GMT

So now as ever, children become the pawns of a deceitful government? Did the children cheat? Or did the Chinese goverment? And how shall it be remedied? Will any of you rip the medal away from around her throat? Take the medal away from the Communist Government...do you think they will care?? But, strip He of the Gold that she spent YEARS of hard training to earn and it will take years for her to forget...and she probably never will.

The time for the IOC to remedy this has past.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Erich, LA, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:14:33 GMT

Point is, if this is all true, is that its cheating, and a huge cover up by the government just for a win. Whether its a large or small deal should anyone allow or condone this mentality and behavior? And if the gov lies about this whos to say where it stops. Just to get ahead. Sad. humans fail again.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Andy G — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:15:05 GMT

The only reason you wrote this article was for the attention. Please focus on your job and quit writing inflamatory "editorials" just to get a rise out of people. You're better than that.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tom G — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:18:41 GMT

Mr. Mike needs to start being an American first, and a journalist second. If he prefers to be a journalist first, then perhaps he needs to find another country from which to practice his chosen profession. If the girl is under 16, she should lose the gold medal. In fact, since part of China's team gold medal was due in no small part to the performance of this girl, then if she if found to be under 16, the the U.S. should receive the team Gold. Just like Marion Jones being stripped of her medal in the relays caused the forfeiture of the other (3) runners of their gold medal.What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Charles Hansing — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:19:17 GMT

What if your underage daughter provided a false driver's license to get into a nightclub, got drunk, and ended up in the apartment of some 25 year old guy, him thinking that she was at least 21, but was only 17? How would that play out? Not well.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

William, Woodstock, GA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:24:01 GMT

They should strip her of her medals and do the same to every cheater...no matter what country. When is the world going to demand accountability. Rules are there for a reason. If China has to cheat to win that should send a huge message to rest of the planet, but if we let them get away with it that sends a worse message. If they do let her get away with it then Shawn Johnson should be allowed to use steroids...maybe she can break that beam next time! We should've known these Olympics were going to be biased. I will bet anyone that in years to come there will be alot of scandals brought to light about these games. But of course America is expected to follow the rules exactly and defend others right to cheat.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tom G, Orlando, FL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:26:47 GMT

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Anonymous, Anonymousville, VV — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:29:05 GMT

"She’s got the documentation – forged or otherwise – that says she’s of legal age. We’ve no choice to let it go at that."

...No. We have a choice to examine the evidence, ALL the evidence, and make an intelligent decision if rules were broken.

http://strydehax.blogspot.com/ *IMPORTANT* This is the website of the blog that shows where and how the information has been obtained. MORE importantly it shows how the information has been purged by government agencies in China.

Physical skill and ability are one thing. To forego all conscience and knowingly break an established rule is another thing entirely.

Your logic is flawed.

((Also you can tell by the way some posters here type, who the shills for the Chinese agenda are))

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Charlie — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:30:25 GMT

Sheesh Muke, what a lot of twaddle. This is state-sponsored cheating, if true, and you and I both know it more than likely is true. They should lose the medals, period. You're so afraid of being "American" about this - why, because we're standing up for such clear principles?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Steven, Sellersville, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:30:48 GMT

So what rules do we choose to follow, and what rules do we ignore? There's no excuse here. If the Chinese gov't cooked the athletes' books, is that any worse than a US bicyclist popping some pills? Oh, wait! That rule cannot be broken!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Pat Kennedy — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:34:02 GMT

Do the rules apply to all-or just everyone EXCEPT China? The rules say sixteen-and that's it.

The idea of the American team being sore losers is absurd-they have a right to expect that all the gymnasts are held to the same rules. Would you think the same way if the roles were reversed? For some reason, I think not....

Cheating is cheating, no matter the form it may take. If any athlete is caught doping, they are stripped of any medals and banned from the olympics-and perhaps banned from their sport as well. Failing to follow the rules for age requires the same strict sanction

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jean Ortiz, Roswell, New Mexico — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:36:35 GMT

My comment is in the form of an open email I am sending to Sports@MSNBC.com:
I find your reporter/blogger on Open Mike either a complete moron or anti American, not sure which. He is an embarrassment to our athletes, the Olympic & ALL sport rules and Mainly MSNBC. I won't waste my time on MSNBC much more if this is the nonsense you support in the future. I have always held you in high esteem.
His blog is well worth forwarding to my email contacts, etc., etc., etc.

Just the initial responses at the bottom of his page should make MSNBC cringe.

Respectfully & Patriotically,
*magicjeannie37*

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Michael, Cleveland, OH — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:49:00 GMT

What complete bunk. You are trying to feed us all a steaming pile of crap disguised as a sirloin...well, actually, maybe just a strip steak.

We're talking about the Olympics here. Medals should be won with hard work, perseverance and integrity. If the girl is younger than the specified age requirement, the Chinese should be stripped of their medals. How many other countries had stellar 14yearolds that were unable to compete? Maybe Romania or Russia or the US or freakin Madagascar would have fared better had they been able to prep and enter some of their younger, more carefree girls in the competition. The younger Chinese girls nailed their routines. The older girls performed with more mistakes. If you think that age doesn't have something to do with that, you are sorely mistaken.

Stop trying to peddle your cheap Walmart Hosiery in front of Dillard's. None of us are buying it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Terri Rizzo, Baltimore, MD — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:50:09 GMT

Athletes, judges, and presumable Olympic officials take an oath. Lying is cheating. It is synonymous with doping. She, and all others who prove to be underage, should be stripped of their medals, and the Gold medals be awarded to the Silver, the Silver to the Bronze, and the Bronze to the 4th place finishers. Fair is Fair.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

CPalmer, Seattle, WA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:51:32 GMT

I think its difficult to legislate human behavior; when they want something, they will find a way to get -- this is not to say, "alow them to get away w/it because they are human". I understand where you are coming from; along w/ the spirit of it -- however, I cannot help but think of all the other girls who worked hard for the past 4 yrs. to compete within the rules to determine the best. How can you just ignore their hard work and the ones left behind because they weren't old enough. They got caught -- they must pay the price.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kevin, Gaithersburg MD — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:53:34 GMT

Who cares if the Americans had falls and mistakes? They played by the rules, as did everyone else. If China is found to be cheating, then they should be punished, and the girl should lose her medal, and the team should lose the team award.

Without rules that are followed, how can anything be fair? Regardless of mistakes, the Americans were above and beyond THIRD place. If China cheated to solidify the gold, then the deserve to LOSE it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

DT, Ft. Worth, TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:58:16 GMT

People make this sound like it's the USA against China when in fact, the age cover up of China affects more than just the USA. Britain's gymnast lost out in this situation too - a fact example that other countries are impacted by Chinese lies.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Sue Stainbrook; West Des Moines, IA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:58:30 GMT

If it is proven the girls were underage, eliminate their scores and use the scores of other team-mates for new totals. Refigure medals from that. If I am not mistaken, the Americans competed for the team medal with only four gymnasts for the most part.

If "sour grapes" is the complaint of those who think breaking rules should be ignored, remember that the US took gold and silver in two of the events, and in the floor exercise, they took silver and bronze behind a Roumanian, not a Chinese gymnast. Liukin tied in the high bar, but lost on a tiebreaker . . . please note that the tie-breaker rule WAS followed. Imagine the Chinese response if it had not been.

Gymnasts from countries other than the USA also were cheated out of possible medals if the Chinese broke the age rules, even the other Chinese gymnasts, for example, the Chinese girl who took bronze in the vault.

I disagree with the idea that all Chinese should be banned from the sport . . . suspensions for the coaches and Chinese officials, yes. But the athletes themselves are their victims. You don't penalize a 14-year-old for the actions of the authorities over her.

I am from Shawn Johnson's hometown. I agree with her that the gymnasts' performances merited the medals. But other athletes are DQ-ed when rules are broken . . . regardless of level of performance.

BTW, I couldn't be prouder of Shawn . . . she was a class act on and off the mats.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Caroline, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:03:26 GMT

If He Kexin is stripped of her medals, that will mean that the Gold medal in the Women's Uneven Bars - which Kexin won by benefiting an arbitrary tie-breaking system - would go to the girl who deserved it, Nastia Liuken. We all rolled over and accepted that one because rules are rules and the tie break system was in place before the start of competition.

They who live by the rules, die by the rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Skipp B. Virginia Beach, Va. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:06:50 GMT

We as Americans should know better. If she is to be found underage...then its only ink and paper. Yes they did cheat...but the Actual physical thing really happened...and that was her performing better than our girls did. So lets be real...the girl actually competed and won...that is no denying. So ease up folks...there's more important things than just winning. Like praying all our athletes making home safely with their families.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

US Citizen, Johnstown, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:09:37 GMT

If falsifying age is not cheating in the Olympics, I want the Chinese to provide my college transcript, SAT score, credit score etc to world for me.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Theresa Bulanda, Cape Coral, FL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:11:04 GMT

Do you know how many children watch the Olympics? Millions! You are suggesting that it is okay to cheat and this is the message that you want to send. Your article is absurd and you should be ashamed. The body of a 14 year old is less developed than that of a 16 year old, thus making it easier for them to complete the required skills. Rules are made for a reason and these rules are to protect gymnasts. Many others have had to return their medals for cheating and the Chinese women will have to do the same, because there is no way that He is 16. I wouldn't be surprised if they find that a few others are below the required age. Cheating is cheating...period!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Karen Satterlee, Charlotte, NC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:11:15 GMT

You have GOT to me kidding me. Its ok to break the rules because you won? Not quite. If the age is 14, 12 or 2 - fine. Lets all field a team that follows the rules. The US team would not have been the same but for our following of rules that apparently do not matter in China. This guy could not be more wrong.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Trang Nguyen, San Francisco California — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:12:38 GMT

What on earth are you thinking? It absolutely DOES matter that the Chinese government tried to cover this entire thing. If the IOC does not fully investigate and punish according the rules, then what good are the rules? Then why should any country for that matter adhere to them? Just because China is trying to put on a show for the world does not excuse it of its obligation to have integrity and respect for all other countries and their athletes.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jim, Atlanta GA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:14:20 GMT

Here's a thought. Don't punish He - she was (at worst) doing what her country told her to do. But by all means investigate. If China orchestrated this and tried to cover it up, punish the Chinese adults who forced/permitted He to cheat. Don't punish He; as a 14 year old, she didn't make the decision to violate the rules. Those decisions were made by adults - and the adults are the ones who should be punished.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

J. Anne. Henson, Sacramento, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:15:14 GMT

Good grief - the kid IS the best - so what about her age? Maybe this should be a discussion about what is the "appropriate" gymnastic age. Stripping her of her medal would achieve what? She's competed and competed amongst the best in the world. If you award her medal to the next "best" - what is that saying?

Give it a rest and concentrate on looking in more minute detail in 2012 in London-hopefully BEFORE the Olympic competions.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Rick Heggy, New Braunfels, Texas — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:15:17 GMT

Whatever happened to "cheaters never win?" This has always been "the golden rule". We set a precedent if we do not strip someone of their award if they cheat. The games are no longer valid. Mike, You are absolutely WRONG. PERIOD. Without rules there is chaos.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kim, Seattle, Washington — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:15:19 GMT

You obviously know very little about elite level gymnastics...although we might live in a PC world of "there's an excuse for any action", the fact of the matter is that cheating is cheating and the rules apply to EVERYONE...the Chinese are not exempt. In the world of Track and Field, Miss Jones learned that the hard way...She lied and got caught and now she is in jail...and I'm supposed to feel sorry for her or the Chinese because they lied and got caught? There are consequences to actions. Play by the rules as they apply to everyone. Or cheat and get caught and get stripped of your medals. Simple

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

moe,alban,canada — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:18:29 GMT

Most stupid commentary yet.
Does MSNBC actually pay this guy ???
I'm speechless.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tom, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:18:55 GMT

The author, and those people who support the author's premise, miss the point completely: the Americans might not have lost because the Chinese were superior at their routines; rather, the American might have lost because the Chinese might have cheated by using gymnasts who, because they were younger than the legal limit, were able to turn in superior performances.

Under this circumstance, it is appropriate and necessary to investigate. If the Chinese cannot be shown after a THOROUGH investigation to have cheated, fine: the girls and team keep their medals. If it turns out that all their classmates for the last 10 years are still 13-14-15, however, they need to be stripped of the medals and made to understand that cheating isn't right.

Personally, many of the friends of my 11 year old daughter show more "development" than the Chinese 16 year olds, so I have my doubts as to the truth of what their government says. And I hope that the IOC is taking blood samples from everyone, b/c in a couple of years they might want to run tests for stuff that people were using that doesn't show up with today's technology.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Linell, Las Vegas, NV — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:24:41 GMT

Wow who is this writer Mike? Rules are in place for a reason period. We could've sent in our own athletes at that age to compete but we follow the rules. Take this guys mic away...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Sharyn Jenkins, Baltimore, Md. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:26:45 GMT

I agree that the integrity of the olympics is being questioned when countries feel the need to lie about the ages of their athletes. If they're as good as these girls are, they can come back in 4 yrs and show us all. By the way, since the olympics are for the best amateurs why are there pro basketball players on the teams. Are there different rules for basketball?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Matt, Gastonia, NC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:28:05 GMT

I was really appalled at your article! If age doesn't matter when it comes to rules, then why didn't you research whether we have gymnasts her age in this country who could have beat her? Girls who are younger are lighter and can flip and bounce around much easier than girls who have developed. It is mindboggling to say that age doesn't matter, unless we also competed with younger gymnasts. Whose to say we don't have better gymnasts who are 14 who wouldn't have screwed up!!! Using your logic, that would only be fair!!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Linda H, Bossier City, LA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:28:34 GMT

Cheating is cheating. It is wrong. There is no other way to look at it except that it is wrong. Would we care if she won the gold because she used a sticky substance on her feet that allowed her to stick better to the beam, or used magic power to help herself vault better, or used special drugs to better develop her muscles in her arms or legs without having to have her entire body develop naturally and throw off her center-of-gravity? Yes, we would care because she would have used an artifical substance to help her get an edge over her competators. In gymnastics, being younger, shorter, with a lower center-of-gravity are all advantages that are really lost once you get to being age 16 because mother nature will make you lose these advantages. So to have this advantage when other don't, but have this advantage unfairly because you are actually too young to legitimately compete, is unfair. Any athlete who illegally has an advantage over competators are stripped of their medals -- look at the Balco case and all the athletes that have this problem. So too should this athlete be stripped of her illegally-gained medal from an illegal advantage.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Len, Frisco, TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:29:23 GMT

I absolutely agree the medals need to go back. The rules are the rules. The fact that the judging was so suspect is a bigger issue.How does a girl who lands on he knees twice knock out our girl or have Nastia lose in a tie breaker. The IOC needed to step in early and take a position to make these games respectable. This reminds me of the ice skating fiasco. I find the games were not completelyon the up and up by the Chinese who find their image is more important at any cost. I love they have become capitalists but with that comes play by rules or get caught and face consequences. The later they save less face!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

S Shepard — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:31:02 GMT

Obey the rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

R. L Baker — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:32:13 GMT

Well if China cheeted on the girls age did they also cheet on the ages of their divers. Is it right? No. But then using paid professional basketball players to field teams is not right either.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Andrea, Norfolk — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:32:58 GMT

China, as a host country, should be the model for making sure their athletes and teams abide by the rules set by the IOC. They have a history of lying about birth credentials, here is an excerpt from the NY TIMES: "Yang Yun of China won individual and team bronze medals at the 2000 Sydney Olympics and later said in an interview on state-run television that she had been 14 at the time of those Games. A Hunan Province sports administration report also said later that she had been 14 when she competed in Sydney." (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/27gymnasts.html?pagewanted=print)

The Olympics should be about the athletes competing within the required set of rules...no doping, age limits, proper gear...China has broken these rules, disgraced themselves as a host nation and this investigation should be completed before the end of the games.

China tries to be a super power, but over the course of the year, they have proven to do nothing but cut corners..i.e. lead in children's toys, pharmaceuticals counterfeits, unclean food...the list goes on. They need to own up to their lies and let these young girls...pawns for their state...bow out with a what's left of their disgraceful dignity.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Matt Krausmann, Summerville, SC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:33:11 GMT

The chinese government showed from the start the extent they would go to in making the games a chinese success. The fudged the fireworks display showed around the world to make it appear more dramatic, they took the right of a little girl with a great voice to be seen around the world by putting in a prettier little girl and dubbing the voice. Does it amaze anyone that they have possibly forged or altered the ages of the female gymnasts. Come on people . . . wake up . . . WE all know that something stinks here and the IOC needs to get to the bottom of the issue to give themselves continued credibility. If one nation cannot play by the rules, why should any other country have to? I agree, if was an american under suspision the rest of the eorld would be clamoring for our heads on a platter!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Knows Better Than That, St. Louis — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:36:59 GMT

To Pissed Off Person: I don't care that Asian people generally "look" younger. When I see that Chinese gymnast smile at the camera and see that she doesn't have her permanent canine yet (upper right by the way), I KNOW she is not 16. Cheating is cheating no matter what the method. Shame on the Chinese for subjecting their young girls to their shameless lying ways. I feel nothing but sorrow for those girls who worked so hard, it is not their fault, but without doubt, the medals should be stripped from them and given to the ones who truly deserved to win them without breaking the rules, no matter what country they are from.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mina K — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:40:11 GMT

The age of a Chinese citizen on his or her passport is often not the real birthdate, refective of the "Western calendar". First of all, Chinese could be basing the birthdate on the "Lunar Calendar". Also, the person's birth certificate can be altered easily--as common practice in China. These birthdates are often changed for the convenience of the person that needs to be of a certain age desired for a particular purpose, such as oversea departures. The IOC needs to dig further on the Chinese women gymnists. This is important for the integrity of the Games, similar to use of performance enhancing drugs. IOC nees to go to the hometowns and the original grade schools that these girls/women matriculated.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Gloria Borkowski, Wisconsin Dells, WI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:40:32 GMT

Hello - I think China needs to face reality. If this young girl is indeed 14, then to openly disregard the rules is putting on a false front for the sake of some medals. They are important especially to the people that honestly win them. I feel bad that China would put any of their people in this type of situation. It seems to go with the little girl with the beautiful voice that they wouldn't show because she was not as pretty as they thought she should be. What a pretentious behavior.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Heather McNab, Hurricane WV — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:41:17 GMT

Nastia Luikin wasn't allowed to compete in Athens because she was only 14. She was an even greater threat then than this year. The US didn't attempt to manipulate her age so that she could win. She had to suck it up and wait. He Kexin should have to face the same wait. In addition, Nastia Luikin was cheated out of her gold medal on the uneven bars, and once again she had to live by the rules.
The Chinese benefitted from the same set of rules that they are apparently trying to break. They need to be held to the same standard as erveryone else.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Alan, Orange County, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:41:21 GMT

Since when we, the people who do not have a clue whether she is really 14 or 16, become the judge or the jury for this case? Some one even come up and say she has too come up with more evidence to prove her age. No, she does not. Has any of you guys ever heard that "innocent until proven guilty". A report from a local news paper or web site is in no way a proof. Any one can start a local news paper or a website to say anything they want. I can do just that to all the girls of the Team U.S.A. The girl has an official document showing her age and that should be the end of story, just like any one from the team U.S.A.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ursula Case, Battle Creek, MIchigan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:41:45 GMT

Rules are rules and they are meant to be followed. To be an Olympic Champion and a gold medalist is the athletes ideal. For an athlete and all of those who particpate by watching and cheering, it simply does not get better than this. Lying and cheating is the lowest set of values anyone can follow. To put the two together and say this is good and we should put up with it goes against everything that is decent and respectful in this world. If it is found the Chinese girls are 14 or younger than 16, they should suffer the consequences any other Olympic cheater would receive (doping, bribery, etc.) They should be stripped of their medals and the country that sponsored them should be ashamed of themselves. It is as simple as that. To do anything else means that we are telling our young people, future Olympians, that it is acceptable to lie and cheat through life. Have we not learned this is unacceptable in other parts of our lives? In politics? In business? Can we say sub-prime mortgages? Now is the time for us to take a stand and declare we will not accept lying and cheating behaviour from anyone for anything ever again.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kim F. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:42:43 GMT

I think the bigger issue here, besides cheating and dishonesty, is that if the U.S. or any other country had a phenom that could not compete because of her age, then it would create an unlevel playing field.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jeff Sparks, Tacoma, WA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:43:57 GMT

Please, the competion is for participants over the age of 16! Therefore, I assume there are potentially viable competitors who did not compete because they are not old enough! If HE is not 16 them HE is not necessarily the best in the world; just the best 14 year old who snuck into the games to participate amongst older gymnasts. Get it!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Wayne Emery, Davenport IA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:45:39 GMT

Does the author of this nonsensical article actually get paid to write this sort of illogical drivel?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

lil — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:46:28 GMT

Lets not forget the uneven bars, He and the american both started out with the same difficulty level He made 3 mistakes the american one so a tie? which then has the new ruling on scores oh yea He won that too. Yes USA made some mistakes and that doesnt take away from how much better the chineses were considering our mistakes we beat ourselves most of the time but the advantages for the chinese was overwhelming

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

eroy — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:46:53 GMT

The criticism of the article is too focused on the Americans. I admit I did not watch the competition and assume there is no debate about whether or not the Americans came in 2nd on the merits of the performance. But the cheating issue remains. What about the team that placed 4th, who came into the games probably knowing that they had no chance at gold but might have been exceedingly proud to win the bronze? Who consoles them?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

J Perrault, Elmira, NY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:47:39 GMT

Gee Mike, I've heard you complain bitterly about doping in cycling and track, calling it cheating. That is when one individual tries to get an edge. How much worse when the government of a state cheats to get an edge? Sounds like a bit of hypocrisy on your part.

The Chinese have lost serious face during this Olympics with CGI fireworks, milli vanilli lil girls and underage gymnasts.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

J. Ross, Louisville, KY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:50:05 GMT

I think that if it is found that she is not the age to compete, then strip her of the medals. If it were a US gymnast she would be stripped in a heartbeat. This is fair play for everyone, not the host country that wants to have more medals than any other country.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Pete Farris, St. Michaels, MD — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:53:30 GMT

Only one of the above comments reminded readers that the issue of the ages of the Chinese gymnasts was raised at the beginning of the games long before they won gold medals. I agree with the writers who point out this should, IF TRUE, be treated no differently than doping. This type of issue does go back a long time; I remember when a number of Eastern European women were disqualified or simply withdrew when their gender became suspect.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

dan, dayton, oh — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:53:45 GMT

The sad thing about this whole situation is that the Chinese girls most likely have no say in the matter. I'm guessing they are forced to lie and it's a shame that the country is willing to cheat to win. If the team does get caught cheating, they should lose their medals in every event which the underage girls participated. Considering it wasn't an individual choice, the team should be pretty heavily sanctioned, maybe even for some gymnastic events in the next games. The problem is that hurts the kids. There is no way to punish China without punishing the athletes were probably just following orders.

The complaining should stop. The US should just formally protest and let the IOC investigate.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Dave Kohler, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:54:24 GMT

Might as well allow doping and what other illegal means it would take to win. It is ridiculous that some people don't know what rules are. They are in place for a reason. Whether the rule is good or bad is up to each individual, but you follow the rules or you have to be willing to take the consequences. Whether the rules change, you have to follow the rules that are in effect right now. If open Mike thinks this doesn't matter, let doping occur, let Mike Tyson bite off as many ears as he wants as long as he wins, who cares. Idiotic!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

mark williams,vallejo,CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:55:24 GMT

It makes no sense to strip medals for one offense and not another.If you have used a means to enhance your performance either let it be in all sports or follow the rules.Someone else made a point it should be called girl's gymnastics not women's

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Esteban, Fort Worth, Texas — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:55:42 GMT

Wow Mike, just wow. You've been covering sports for how long now? Rules are there for a reason, if no one is going to follow them, then why bother? It's almost like those people who don't believe in winners or losers, so long as everyone gets to participate. If there are no winners, then what's the point of playing? Why strive to be the best if all your opponent has to do is cheat? This isn't a matter of "Well, you should have made less mistakes and tried harder...", this is a case of outright deception, lying, and cheating by Chinese officials. Granted the girls may be "innocent", but at the same time, these girls should be able to differentiate between right and wrong.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

a. Auburn, Al — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:56:13 GMT

If the Chinese would allow a little girl deemed "flawless" to lipsync to the song of a talented girl who they considered unpresentable, would you put it past them to lie about their talent in the gymnastic competitions? I believe they lied about the girls ages and therefore they didn't win. They weren't qualified to compete! Don't you think the USA (and the other countries) have girls under 16 who can perform in Olympic fashion, but were not allowed because they weren't QUALIFIED?! In any case, if the suspicion is there it should be investigated. It's not whining...all these athletes have worked very hard to get to the Olympics and deserve a fair competition. (And there were many questionable scores given in the favor of the Chinese athletes.)

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

AL, Twin City, MN — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:56:48 GMT

Let's go over with it. When the American team drop the gold not because of the age, but the mistake. Don't just find an excuse for the american team to win. I agree with the author's point of view. If American Team want to win gold then show your competence instead of blaming the rule. This won't help to improve the quality of athlete.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

CiCi, TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:57:16 GMT

yes rules a rules, cheat is cheat. But, do you guys have ACTUALY PROOF for that?! If nope, just shut-up. it's always just Americans being to self-center, they have to win everything, they have to "teach" the other country how to do and what to do, everything must be done in their ways, according to them, it's just so wrong!!!!

Chinese indeed looks alot younger than their actual age, by looking at their appearance and judge them, it's not fair. Everything is just have to be Americans' way, just like during the games, the anchorman keep nagging about how high the CHinese get and blah blah blah, and how good the Americans are and how bad performance of Chinese ..... that's just TOTALLY BIAS !!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

scott — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:58:59 GMT

i am sorely dissapointed in my country fellows being a bunch of racist, xenophobic, sore losers. nobody has proved anyone cheated.what a sad bunch that cant be happy for anothers fortune

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

S Reeves — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:59:22 GMT

Age limit is for the protection of the athletes and China is abusing these girls and lying. The other countries are following these rules China does not have too. Then why have the games at ALL!!!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Michael Webber — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:00:26 GMT

The true sad part of the Chinese gymnastics "machine" is the age that the kids are taken from their parents. Anything for the good of the state, even if you have to hurt kids and cheat.

Ask those who got protest permits from the Chinese government how they are treated. Oh, yeah, they set aside a protest area and then granted zero permits. and anyone trying to express non-government approved speech is quickly hustled away.

That the Olympics ever awarded to allow totalitarians to boast about their country is beyond belief. Berlin in 1932 anyone? The Olympic movement (IOC, USOC) is more worried about big profits than anything else and, as a business, they should be taxed.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Dave Terry, Quinte, Ontario, Canada — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:00:46 GMT

This isn't about China vs. America people. It's about playing by the rules and without rules there is no game(s). If you get caught cheating you get stripped of a medal. Right? When did that change? Oh, and by the way, some country- I have no idea whom- finished fourth and would deserve a medal. Or do you honestly think that some cheating is more okay than others?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

chris — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:00:47 GMT

Burying your head in the sand is what you must do to solve all of your problems in life. Cheating cheapens and ruins sport. Depending on the type of cheating it can also physically ruin people for life. According to your attitude maybe we should start injecting nine year olds with horse steroids and then slap a sixteen year old birth certificate on them. No one else should mind right? Nobody should complain because it might hurt someone's feelings right? Stop playing the politically correct card and open your eyes to reality. You might learn something about real life. Avoiding problems or pretending like they don't exist doesn't solve them.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Loh,Malaysia — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:00:49 GMT

You Americans ARE sore losers. Just look at your MSNBC Olympic medals tally reports. America no. 1 with the most number of medals. When has total number of medals take precedence over gold medals? China is no. 1 with the gold medals. You will catch up soon I am sure. Meanwhile, grow up.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Irene Rhodes, Bunker Hill, WV — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:03:50 GMT

WOW, hard to believe you took this stand. Would the Chinese be so agreeable if USA lied or cheated? I think not. If your theory goes, then what about the runners who barely crossed the lines, or barely started before the gun? Thats not what the Olympics stand for. If these girls are underage then the Chinese bloody well knew it and plotted and schemed their way to a gold medal, which is just not fair. Period. Irene from West Virginia

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

FREE-THINKING AMERICAN, CHINA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:05:33 GMT

Remember : innocent until proven guilty.
Evidence has to be provided that shows guilt beyond REASONABLE DOUBT.
A basic tenet of law.

So many of these postings are ASSUMING GUILT ALREADY based on hearsay.

Danny Almonte, "the Little League pitcher who made himself two years younger to become a hero in the Little League World" was PROVEN TO HAVE FALSIFIED HIS AGE.

No conclusive proof, no guilt.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

jan, lapaz,indiana — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:06:18 GMT

Yes the Chinese girl did a great job, but if HE is under age according to the rules she has cheated and should be disciplined. Would it be ok if she lied about her age to drink? IT would still be illegal. Lying and cheating says little of her character or sportsmanship.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mimi, San Diego, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:06:27 GMT

Unbelievable. Is this guy Mike a journalist? I was quite appalled at his comments. Why is it so easy for him to tell us to "let it go"? Regardless of which country came in Silver or Bronze, as everyone has stated, Cheating is not acceptable. We are trying to teach our children not to lie and cheat. What does this tell them? Try and you might get away with it? Shame, shame, shame on all of you. Obviously the Karolys are incensed, as we all should be. They have a true passion for the sport and understand all the hard work and sacrifices these girls have made. Why should anyone have an "edge" going in?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Adam, NJ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:07:38 GMT

Mike, it makes me wonder what it is you are thinking. Almost all of the posts bring up valid points, for both sides. This is not about China vs. the U.S. This about CHEATING! I believe that if China DID NOT win the Gold, there would still be scrutiny.
I know you wrote this on Aug. 14th, but as of today, Aug. 21st, the IOC has opened up an investigation on the matter(so much for case closed). Whether or not He is disqualified still remains to be seen, but this is very large black eye for both the Olympics and China.
Just remember Marion Jones and Ben Johnson, both were gold medalists who cheated, and got stripped of their medals. So it can happen.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Susan, San Diego, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:08:54 GMT

I'm tired of people complaining about the U.S. complaining. We have as much right as any country to lodge a complaint when rules are broken. Why is it that when the United States points out such issues, we're called "bullies," but when other countries point out the same kinds of issues, it's "ensuring fairness"?

Our athletes work as hard as any others, and ALL athletes deserve the chance to win fairly. That means by following the rules. When athletes from the U.S. have cheated, they have rightfully lost — along with their medals — the respect of the public and of other athletes in their sport.

By saying it's ok to "let it go," you are condoning cheating. I guess I might as well plagarize your article, since, apparently, you'd simply "let it go."

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

dora , Indy,Indianapo;is — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:10:01 GMT

What else do we expect from china They substitue one young child for another for the opening event. Who knows what else they have done.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

William Lentzsch, Gainesville, FL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:10:39 GMT

The real shame of this is that these CHILDREN are being used to perpetuate the fraud being committed by the Chinese gymnastics federation. What is a 13-year-old or 14-year-old supposed to do about the pressure put on them to not only perform at the highest level under the brightest spotlight on Earth, all while having their legitimacy to perform questioned? It's basically very unfair to Hexin and her underage teammates, and the real shame is that they are the ones suffering. They're children, and they've done what they were told. Even should the US women end up with the gold medals, there's little reason to celebrate. Because when children are exploited, there's a price to pay around the globe...it's almost the exact opposite of the Olympic ideal.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

CK, Virginia — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:17:48 GMT

Sorry, Mike, but you've got this one wrong. If the Chinese govt altered those passports, they cheated. Plain and simple. It's no different than athletes using steriods, and I see to remember you feel pretty strongly on that one.
Cheating is cheating, no matter how you slice it. Being younger in gymnastics is a huge advantage - smaller bodies, less nerves, less fear. Secondly, you should be ashamed of your comments regarding the US women and their "costly mistakes and butt plants". That is an inexcusable writeup of their efforts. Yes, they made mistakes. Falls happen in gymnastics - even at the Olympic level. Even the Chinese fell - but you don't mention that part. The US women gave it their best effort and you should applaud them for what they accomplished - a silver medal. Never once did one of those girls make an excuse for why they didn't win gold, or try to blame the underage gymnasts. They took the high road throughout the competition and you owe them the same respect and courtesy.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Sick of the double standard... — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:19:58 GMT

Communist countries have ALWAYS cheated in the olympics and the Chinese government has conspired to issue a false passport for this little girl.

The Chinese government has steamrolled over the human rights of their people seemingly forever and if you read how they abused tens of thousands of their people who participated in that opening ceremony, it should make us SICK that we are pandering to them in any way.

What are the olympics supposed to stand for? I once thought the were to showcase the highest in athletic achievement throutht the world... now they have added everything but coin collecting and, I'm sorry, the mess is more than I can enjoy.

And how about the judging scandals?

The olympics have become a bloated, scandal plauged embarassment when compared to what they were intended to represent when the modern games were reintroduced.

Back to the Chinese government and the passport fraud... I hear that "saving face" is everything to the chinese. Cheaters don't deserve to be pandered to and the communist Chinese need to be embarassed and humiliated as they are exposed for what they are.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Laura, Phoenix — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:24:51 GMT

Your theory on how America would have lost anyway is based on the idea that China would have been able to put together as strong a team as they had. The truth is, if their 16 year-old candidates were as good as ours, then they would have used those athletes instead of opting to cheat.
Even with our mistakes, we got the Silver so a slightly weaker Chinese team would have definitely given us the gold, "butt plants" and all.....

Secondly, you are completely omitting the fact that He won 2 gold metals and one was for an event final that she tied with Nastia. T
he method of tie breaking was controversial enough, but this was not a case where the US gymnast was so far behind He, that we would not have won anyway. Had He not been there, then Nastia would have earned her 2nd gold metal. In fact, she did earn it, but Australia was in China's pocket.

Why has no one looked at that judge for shaving points? I mean, while we're investigating Chinese gov't conspiracies.....

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Virginia, Louisville, KY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:25:10 GMT

You have got to be kidding!!! Let it slide if the chinese cheated by falsifying documents? My mouth is still dragging the floor after reading your comments! The US could have sent gymnasts who are 14, who could have beaten He. I know. My daughter is a competative gymnast (Level 10, 15 yrs. old), who has competed at meets with Shawn Johnson, Nastia and Samantha Pez. The last 3 years she has been fortunae to compete at the Junior Olympic Nationals, and believe me, the talent I have witnessed in the American 13, 14, 15 year old is amazing! There is no doubt the US could have had Gold utilizing our younger athletes. Gymnastics is one sport where youth and being petite is a huge advantage!

The US is not whining. Cheating is cheating! Get Over It!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John Glunk, San Antonio — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:25:14 GMT

I wonder if this year, Romania had another 14 year old Nadia or Russia another 14 year old Olga or the US had another 14 year old Mary Lou?
I don't know. Maybe they were there. I guess we'll never know because the rules that these countries abide by would have prevented them from competing. No matter how good they are, they would have to wait until 2012.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tampa, Florida — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:28:29 GMT

Well hell, why couldn't I drive and drink at 14? if it's okay to cheat in international competition then what's a few beers and a joy ride at 14 or 15? Rather or not the US team stepped on it or not isn't the issue. The issue is if China cheated then they cheated. Don't change the topic. Apparently your another in a series of liberal leftest standing in line to kiss an ass that doesn't deserve kissing.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

CJ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:28:42 GMT

This has nothing to do with just the Americans. A rule was set for the safety of all gymnists under the age of 16 no matter the nationality. What I find horrendous about this article is that the author professes no concern for He and her physical and mental well being, the reason that the age rule was set into place in the first place. I do believe if she turns out to be under 16 that this is the point that we all should be concerned about. The author had a chance to point this out. They failed miserably in doing so.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kathy Ouwerkerk, Cincinnati, Ohio — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:31:12 GMT

You know we have these incrediable athletes who train hard and work hard and sacrfice for an event held every four years .....I am proud of our USA team as I am sure all of us are . When rules are put in place they are there for a reason not just in sports but in everything in life . I would hope that the governing body takes these rules as serious as they do all of the others if the ages are in fact wrong then they have cheated the teams who competed within the rules and that is unacceptable . To those athletes who competed within the rules they should get what they have worked so hard to attain . We are proud of our Olympians regardless of what medal they took. Even more proud of the way the have handled this situation it only shows the pride they take in themselves and what they have accomplished .

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Glenn Abersold, Livermore, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:32:18 GMT

If you allow one country to break this rule then let's allow doping as well . . . why have rules if you don't enforce them? Cheating is cheating!!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ted, Sacramento CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:32:29 GMT

Dear Pissed off Person,
Yes many Asians have smaller frames and are of smaller stature. I am not sure if they go through puberty later too, but many of the chinese gymnasts look like they are just going through that now.
Anyway, that is'nt the point. it is more than just how the gymnasts look. Now, just today it is coming out that there is evidence, in terms of newspaper reports and now official government documents, that indicate that the Chinese gymnasts are underage. Mysteriously, those documents have suddenly disappeared off the web, but in the age of computers, once something is online, it can never be eradicated. there are caches and backups and all sorts of records.

Now the truth is going to come out

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

M. Chris — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:34:45 GMT

By the way, did anyone notice that some of the other countries competing had gymnasts under 16 and when their names appeared on the screen it stated their age as 15?? I am sure that there was at least one Russian competitor who was 15. How was she allowed to compete?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Eugene — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:35:56 GMT

Let's not gloss over the main point. The rule is in place to insure that over-zealous countries don't create olympic sweat shops. The Chinese are notorious for taking small children from their families to become property-of-the-state athletes. I have a big problem with people who don't think that is a problem.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A Dad — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:36:57 GMT

Sorry Mike, this is a dumb and dangerous argument. If a country or athlete cheats during the Olympics, there should be consequences and there is nothing wrong with a commentator pointing out a flagrant violation of the rules. This is especially true for a rule like this, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO PROTECT YOUNG ATHLETES.

As the father of a 13 year old daughter, it is patently obvious that several of the girls on the Chinese team are not 16. Shawn Johnson is 16. Several of the Chinese gymnasts were terrific, but they are not 16. Presumably the reason underaged girls were used in the competition is that Chinese officials thought they were better than the older kids. If true, the competition is completely different and the Chinese team would not necessarily have won the gold medal. It's not sour grapes and the U.S. team's performance is irrelevant. It would still be cheating, if the U.S. had come in fifth.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jennifer Hakala, Katy TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:38:09 GMT

Mike,

Do they have drug testing where you work? I was just wondering what you've been smoking?

Seriously though, and not to beat a dead, underaged, or puberty restrained horse, cheating is cheating. There's no excuse for it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jeff, Atlanta — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:39:15 GMT

I don't approve of cheating to win a competition, but how do you prove cheating took place? How do you prove that Government documents have been altered? I don't believe the gold will be taken from the Chinese in this instance. The IOC will give the appearance of a thorough investigation, then stand by its decision that all requirements were met. Wow, it's hard to believe that another governoring body isn't perfect.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Olymp Fan, Mpls, MN — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:41:53 GMT

No, the women didn't deserve to win the gold, but if they'd had the opportunity to avoid age limits, the Americans would have had a better team...and included one or two younger girls on it who are better than some we had on the team. Therefore, playing fair hurt our team. Perhaps the butt falls wouldn't have happened if a more talented (albeit younger) gymnast had done the events in question.

I am against the age limit because most gymnasts peak around age 12-14 and miss out on the Olympics because of it. However, rules are rules and we certainly expect our Olympians to follow them. That's why Marion Jones is now a convicted felon. He (and the other underage gymnasts) should lose their medals to teach their nation a lesson...not as a means to punish the girls themselves. They certainly had no say in the decision to even do gymnastics. However, one of the girls in question is missing a tooth that children lose before 7th grade. I know...I teach middle school.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A Concerned Mother — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:43:13 GMT

So you are saying that it is okay to put the child in danger. They rules were changed to protect the children and should be followed. Maybe USA would not have been first but we did follow the rules. Rules should not be made if they are not to be followed.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jules, Oregon — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:44:54 GMT

Obviously these girls are not 16 (I am a high school student and would know) and rules should be followed, but this rule should be recalled. If these girls are good enough to win gold, then it should be theirs. May the best man win, regardless of age.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

D Sweet, Dallas, TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:45:01 GMT

The issue is putting young athletes at risk for the sake of their own nations pride. China is saying by this act, if she is too young, that child labor laws are to be ignored if it will bring their nation some fame. That is why the results must be reversed, if she is too young. The goal is to protect predatory governments from damaging 12 year old girls for the glory of the corrupt government. If she were making shoes, I hope we would complain. But since she is earning a living by performing dangerous maneuvers for a big audience, then it is ok.

This is the reason China should have never been allowed to host these games to begin with. Their record on human rights is attrocious. That is why it is believable and credible when they are accused of altering a document in order to win, even if it puts a child in harms way.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

k shea, ohio — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:46:02 GMT

An investigation should be done, but good luck any evidence found so far has "disappeared" or dates changed. This is a government that is cheating not the girls. They have no choice but to do what their government tells them to do. I feel for the girls stuck in the middle, and in china this is their one chance at providing money and a living for them and their family. I do feel, us American's do whine a lot, but in this case we may be justified if indeed the girls are under 16. Does the American girls deserve to get the gold?. . .I say no, we had major mistakes and I am sure other countries look at us as getting favorable scores compared to our mistakes and we shouldn't have gotten the silver. Gymnastics could be a great sport if the judging can be fixed. If America won gold would the age be an issue? I honestly don't know. . .I would hope so. I hate it when we look bad.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jan, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:49:50 GMT

Totally disagree with you on this one. If these girls are indeed underage, they should lose their medals. China should be sanctioned and their gymnastics team banned from the 2012 Olympics. This has NOTHING to do with the US team getting silver (although the judging was COMPLETELY biased) - this issue came up BEFORE the gymnastic competition began and the IOC refused to investigate at that time. Now it's created this mess. He##, give the gold to ANY country other than China. They don't let a precious little girl sing because she's deemed not pretty enough, they fake the opening ceremony fireworks - China is no different than it has been for centuries. There is no "new China" - just same old same old. Yet another example of them doing anything to win. (At the rate OUR country is going, we'll all be speaking Chinese and under their thumb in 50 years!)

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Stephen Jones, Shelbyville, Indiana — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:51:07 GMT

The "rule" that's being discussed was voted on by all the countries involved in the Olympics. It came about fairly and obviously should be followed. Otherwise, what's the point! What's the point of competing if it's not all on the same level?!

Mr Mike C., congratulations on purposely inflaming the vast majority of the US in order to get noticed or at least get your article read by more than just a small circle. Certainly, you do not actually believe what you've written or maybe you lack some very basic intelligence. Your arguements and reasoning flies in the face of all of us who have basic common sense. Your opinion in your story would be like saying to the general public, "Don't criminalize the CEOs of companies like Enron, they were just trying to make some money and save there multi-million dollar retirement plans". Surely, a man of your limited intelligence can see my point. In case you're confused, here's it is plain and simple. Stupid is as stupid does.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

An American Dad, DFW Texas — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:51:12 GMT

Easy to pontificate when you are not the girls who trained so hard or the coaches who worked, breathed, lived and died with the girls. Easy when you are not the parents who have gone to unimagineable lengths to allow their girls the chance to compete. So when they compete against countries that have made it an unofficial profession to train their athletes to win gold it is NOT too much to expect the rules of the governing bodies to be not only heeded, BUT also enforced.

Marta, Bela and any others who call for eradication of the seemingly useless 'rule' as well as a look at it's current enforcement are doing exactly what they should: Protecting their athletes who abide by the rules against those who disregard the rules for their own gain. I doubt that if it were your child you would feel any different, no matter what you say on TV or in print.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Pat Dalton, Limerick, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:51:16 GMT

I think the author showes his ignorance when he calls a little league pitcher a "discrased hero". I would like to know if that was his opinion or if he pulled that out of another media outlet. I suppose the theory is the pitcher is bad only because he got caught. I wouldnt want to meet his kids in scholastic sports. Who is this guy, did he ever play sports besides pocket pool. Why does he have a "croc dundee" hat on? I know people like him... holyer than now! There is an underlying issue here for this over priveliged fool who harbors aggression towards the United States. No one at any time made this issue about the US. The author did. The real issue is the spirit of equal competition. This ignoramis says in one sentence that there is no reason to raise an issue about it but then in the next sentence quotes factual physical and emotional advantages a younger competetor has. It makes me question what it takes to be a writer for MSNBC.com. However, the article could be a rouse, getting us to read it and getting us to respond a ridiculous point of view so we feel like we are a part of this whole process. For the author's sake I hope that is the case, but its probably not. Where at MSNBC.com can I send my resume?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

No fan of cheaters — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:52:46 GMT

Wow. Mike Celizic is a moron. Grade A moron. You should be ashamed of your ridiculous logic. Wow. Just wow.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Pat Dalton, Limerick, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:53:21 GMT

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Richards, Dallas, Texas — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:53:38 GMT

Nastia was only 14 at the last Olympics and from what I've heard could have been good enough to win a medal back then - BUT didn't get to go because she was underage.
She had to wait it out....
What a sucker, right? for following the rules....

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Sasuke Sarutobi, Boulder, CO — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:54:20 GMT

You people are all biased. You're all bitter about not winning the gold medal. The fact is, we Americans are by far the WORST EXAMPLE OF HELPING CHEATERS. Bell Belichick is a liar and you people let him get away with it. Ben Johnson is a liar and you people voted to let him get away with it. As is Marion Jones, as are most US athletes with better doping systems. This is a new age restriction - I saw no one complaining when MARY LOU RETTON won gold. Was she 16? oh wait...NO SHE WASN'T. Once again the US has shown itself to be a hypocritical bunch of sore losers who can't handle getting second. None of you complained when Retton won; now it's only an issue because the winner isn't American. I'm disgusted to be an American today seeing how bitter all of the people are on here. The US should be better than that and focus on all the great athletes that have come from there.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Rachel, Long Beach, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:54:32 GMT

Part of the problem with your argument is that you do not take into consideration that the Americans (and all of the other competing teams) may have had more athletes dealing with injuries because they ARE older than 16 - when you are younger, your body heals more quickly and can handle with rigorous activity better. That is part of the advantage of having younger gymnasts - they are more flexible and less likely to injure themselves.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Brent Hodgkinson, Springvillle, UT — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:57:38 GMT

A rule, is a rule, is a rule......

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Edna — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:03:38 GMT

Team USA did defeat themselves in the Olympic Team Final because as you can see Alicia had two terrible falls which caused her to score low on her routines and it opened the door for the Chinese Gymnasts to claim gold.. I would also like to put that these Chinese Gymnasts are sent to as well as picked to train as China's next Olympic gymnasts at a young age. The gymnasts parents are willing to send them there for a better future.. Have any of you seen the food provided to them? Its not a excellent meal three times a day as you can see in America.. Nutrition is completely different if you compare the two country's.. Most of these children do not come from wealthy families and they certainly do not come from developed areas.. Most of these gymnasts are from the rural side of China.. So when everyone says cheating is cheating or rules are rules, yes that does apply but look at the other facts.. Also, look at certain companies they employ young teen at low wages whom are involved in making the clothes YOU wear (other objects as well).. Those teens are most likely PRE-TEEN instead of teens,ages 16-18, so its okay for you to wear expensive clothing or companies to employ teens at lesser wages than they would in America but not okay for those workers to earn enough for their families? It's not like these under aged workers choose to work for less but how are they suppose to afford shelter or food if they cannot have an education as one could have in America.. I guess as all of you that disagree cheating in this area is okay but not in gymnatics..

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Dr Doug — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:07:28 GMT

For me it's not whether the Americans are first or second. If the Chinese girls are too young - they lose their medals and any mention of their competition should be erased from the records. I would say exactly the same thing if thise were the Americans.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

an american against lying and cheating, Indiana — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:07:53 GMT

Cheating, no matter the way or form, should NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE, and if someone can prove it, they should! I am sure there are MANY 12 to 14 year old gymnasts in this country that are better and more qualified to be our representatives in this sport, however because we follow the RULES set by the IOC, they must wait, risking injuries for many more years, to be eligible. Let me remind you, Nastia would have most likely qualified 4 years ago if her passport could have been doctored to make her older and eligible. She could possess twice as many medals as she does now since she proved to be better than the world now and then. What a terrible message to send to our children; and we wonder what's wrong with the world today! Shame on you!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ronald L. Babcock Shoreline Wash. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:11:37 GMT

The Chinese think they should make their own rules and not be governed by the IOC.Do not let them do that and also it seemed that the scoring was suspect like maybe someone got to the Judges who felt because they were in China they could get away with it . Anyone with good eyesight could see what was going on. and it sort of ruined the Games. So Solly!!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Old Creaker, Baltimore, MD — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:12:12 GMT

To the person who asked re men's gymnastics and ice skating: Age is not as important in men's gymnastics because men's gymnastics is more about strength whereas women's gymnastics is more about flexibility. Younger girls are more flexible than older women.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mark Wm. Gross woodbury,mn. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:12:31 GMT

You sound like your better suited to live in China then here. Let me know if you need money for moving expenses !

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

jawhitf Cantonment FL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:13:30 GMT

Evidentley Mike...you didn't see the mens 200 meter race. Two runners, one was an American was disqualified for stepping on the lane line. The RULE is the RULE. So...if the Chinese girls are under age then...the RULE is the RULE you moron !!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Leesburg, VA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:15:22 GMT

Sorry Mike, but I raise my kids with an understanding of respecting the rules. You are out to lunch if you think anyone should get over competing in a contest where one team cheated. No matter how they performed, the US team was already out-matched walking into the building if these allegations are true, and you article clearly explains why. How about you getting over that you are flat out wrong about this.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

David, Milwaukee, WI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:22:14 GMT

Wow! This article should go in the garbage with that stupid hat you wear in your picture. Did you get paid to write this rambling?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

R.Townsend — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:25:20 GMT

The Chinese Government forged all of the age documents obviously. They new she was a winner for gold, and this is what the chinese gov wants---domination!!!!. There will be absolutely no way the olympic commission can investigate with accuracy her age, since the documentation was so cleverly devised beforehand by the Chinese Gov.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

S. Smith, Honolulu, Hawaii — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:27:21 GMT

Rules are rules, no body can argue that. We should just file a complaint, let the authority decides and then just moves on. To continue to pursue relentlessly, sure looks like a sour loser. Would you have cared so much if US has won the Gold or the Chinese finished last, probably not! To say the age limit is to protect the girls is so phony. All the girls, Chinese or American alike, started their rigorus training when they were probably 5 or 6, they are pounding on their bodies every day regardless whether they got to participate in the competition in 14 or 16. If there was cheating, it was the government, not the Chinese girls. They won fair and square. You want to see their birth certificates, come on, if the government could create a fake passport, it could make a fake birth certificate too. What for? US is a great country, could we behave like an adult! Someone suggested MSNBC to boycott the writer because he expressed a different opinion, that is very UNamerican, it is worse than the Chinese cheating on the age. Do we have to get down to that level ??????????

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Raj, AL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:29:28 GMT

Shawn Johnson looks 14 so she must be 14.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ft. Lauderdake, Florida — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:30:30 GMT

mike. u realy surprize me that you would even fix your mouth to say something so redicules man. How could you say that cheating is ok. You must not have had anything to right. IN any sport rules have to be followed.Wen the american men steped on the line they were disqulified, why because it was the rules. when marion jones used sterriods and got caught she lost her medals, (Rules) must be followed to be fair.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Irina — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:31:21 GMT

So you wrote: "So it doesn’t matter how old He is. She didn’t beat the Americans. Injuries and mistakes did them in."

Well, Ok, I can agree with that in the team competition. But in the uneven bar event Nastya Liukin was CONSIDERABLY better than that Chinese pre-teen (at least that's what she looks like to me, and I'm sure many others). And the points system is set up in a really stupid way: Chinese (who actually got a larger deduction, which was later dropped) ended up winning...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Karen, Grand Isle, VT — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:34:33 GMT

Others have commented well on the ridiculous nature of a position that says, "no big deal" to breaking the rules of competition. How do we teach our children the value and nature of fair play, when the ultimate expression of fair play, the Olympic Games, becomes just another example of blurry ethics? It's also well worth reiterating that every girl goes through a difficult transition from puberty to adulthood that simply isn't a part of gymnast's experience at fourteen, and likely is by sixteen. The growth experienced so quickly during puberty makes the body literally "unused" to itself, which is why many teenagers are clumsy, knock things over, etc. If the rules of competition are set at 16, then fine, most all the girls will be struggling with this same enemy of "early adulthood." If others choose to flaunt the rules and disrespect those athletes who have obeyed them, they do have an unfair advantage, and this would not be tolerated in any manner in any other sport. It is wrong. You belittle all of us when you label calling wrong, wrong, and instead call it griping.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mark Wyatt, San Diego, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:38:11 GMT

Careful what ou wish for. If the age 16 limit is rigorously enforced, the Chinese would experiment further with delaying puberty, surely worse for the athlete than a false passport.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Yo Momma — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:38:27 GMT

1976 Nadia Comaneci was just just ubder 15 when she won the first ever 10. She is a beautiful woman today.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Veronica, MD — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:39:36 GMT

OK, being a former gymnast for 12+ years, IF they say the youngest the gymnast can be is 16... that is the rules. China BROKE the rules and yes she should be stripped of her medals. I believe that the IOC should drop the age limit due to the fact that some gymnast peak at a younger age than others. IF He was 14 than how will she be 4 years from now? As good, better or out due to injuries? BUT they have to drop it for EVERYONE! I have more of a problem that the scoring was a rip off and the USA got ripped of gold medals due to tie and tie breakers. Any other sport would have given out 2 gold medals to the tied people, NOT gymnastics they have somehow to break a "tied" score, give me a break. I also believe as for the medals that since "CHINA" cheated if this all turns out to be true and 3 girls are underage, they should lose all their medals and the medals given to the next person who deserved it as if the Chinese wern't there. FAIR IS FAIR!!! Of course what do you expect from a country who had a child lip sync a song cause one was "sute" and one wasn't.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

raven — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:40:36 GMT

i think if the competition is going to be called women's gymnastics there should be women competing...otherwise they should call it the prepubescent or tween gymnastics

their size, agility, and weight gives them an unfair advantage to other 'real women' in the competition...even 16 seems young....

if you're old enough to drive a car you can represent our entire nation globally
odd

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Denise, Racine, Wisconsin — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:40:39 GMT

According to you sir, it is okay to cheat. Marion Jones was stripped of her medals, she cheated, but in all due respect from your comments, it would be okay for her to keep her medals, as it is okay to cheat. If people can't follow the rules then why have an Olympics, rules are rules and cheating is cheating.
If the Chinese gymnast are so good then they should PROVE IT when they turn 16.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Michael O'Neal-Petterson, Altadena, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:41:40 GMT

So He's awesome. Given. The Chinese agreed to certain rules, for hosting and participating. Granted, they've ignored all the other ones, so why should ignoring this one matter?

We're talking about a country that doesn't care about people, it cares about (flawed) communist principles. Let them have their flashy opiate of the masses. In the end, the rest of the world sees their bloodthirsty motives.

Tiananmen square was not an illusion.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jim Larkin, Ogden, Utah — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:44:48 GMT

I don't know whether the Chinese gymnasts are 16 or not. I personally don't think so, but while I can't prove it I know there are people who can and rather easily. In any case, I STRONGLY disagree with Mike's two key conclusions, i.e.: 1) "She's got the documentation that says she's of legal age." and 2) "We’ve no choice to let it go at that." First, she has A SINGLE document, a passport, saying she's (and the others) of legal age. This should usually be enough because we, particularly Americans, like to believe countries won't lie, create and stand behind false documents, however unfortunately, this is not always the case. While a passport should normally be acceptable as proof of age, if there are any doubts then with today's technology it should be a very simple (and quick) matter to find plenty of other documents substantiating a person's age . . ., IF the government will allow the investigation. Second, we most certainly DO NOT simply have "no choice to let it go at that." I was in the arena at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City when the gold medal in pair's figure skating was awarded to the Russians rather than the Canadians when it was obvious to all who saw their routines the Canadians had CLEARLY outperformed the Russians. Yet, there it was; the judging had been done, authenticated and put into the books. As far as the Russians, the judges and -- it appeared to me -- the skating federation were concerned it was "case closed", over, done; if you don't like it, "get over it." They most certainly did NOT want to look into it, do anything or hear anymore about it. It was ONLY after the OUTRAGE of the general public WOULD NOT LET IT GO the IOC finally conducted an investigation which proved the French figure skating judge had made a deal with the Russians to give the Russian figure skating pairs her vote for gold in exchange for the Russian judge's vote for the French pair in ice dancing. The "fix" had been in all along. OUTRAGEOUS!!! But, according to Mike, I guess we should have just "let it go." I don't think so. Pres. Ronald Reagan clearly understood how to deal with people and foreign governments when he said, "Trust . . ., but verify."

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Bob G, Ann Arbor, MI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:48:40 GMT

It's a sad state when Americans, whose justice system is founded on the principal of innnocent until proven guilty, are so quick to pronounce China guilty without the investigaton even being completed.
If China did in fact cheat, they should be stripped of their medals. But wait until the FIG conducts it's investigation before you pronounce them guilty.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Don Hoe — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:48:52 GMT

I couldn't disagree with you more, Mike. I will second what the (intelligent) people before me said. They are rules, and you can't just break them because you are in a communistic & immoral government.

It's not about the Americans getting the gold! How much will it take to get this through your thick skulls?! It is more about the Russian team, actually. They did a good job, and they deserve the bronze medal - it's not fair that they were shut out of a medal by these cheaters.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Dan, Northbridge, MA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:50:23 GMT

"If the United States had nailed every routine and not suffered a rash of crippling injuries and lost anyway, I might be willing to listen to the charges of age doping. But they didn’t. The American women had several costly mistakes and butt plants and falls that ultimately made it impossible for them to win. So it doesn’t matter how old He is. She didn’t beat the Americans. Injuries and mistakes did them in."

Not so. The Americans played by the rules, and thus had a smaller pool of Gymnasts to choose from. If one country can choose from all the eligible candidates, plus those that are close enough, well that is an unfair advantage, no? The fact that we made mistakes is a red herring - would we made those mistakes if we had chosen other gymnasts? There is no way to tell... that was against the rules, and we followed the rules. Did China? Only time will tell, or perhaps it wont. How can you trust a state issued passport when you are accusing the state of lying in the first place? They could make a passport saying she is 50!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mary Anne Tusil, WA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:50:45 GMT

The writer of this article is biased; siding the Chinese. The Olympics committee needs to uphold its integrity and standards. This issue needs to be investigated. And rules need to be implemented; otherwise, there should be no rules at all. It would be unfair to those who stuck with the rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Susan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:56:57 GMT

I think people here should also go to check Lin Hao's age, who was standing with Yao Ming during the ceremony. He is nine years old, but looks like 5-6 years old. Asian people always look younger than their real age.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Muthusamy. Kuala Lumpur. malaysia — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:57:47 GMT

I am an asian and to tell you frankly I hate you americans because you are so rich and think the world gravitates around Washington.. But I dont understand your article, what fool you are to say it is ok for the Chinese athletes to cheat with the backing of the government. You think just because you an american says it is ok, we asians should be happy and say see even an american says it is no big deal. Well my friend just for your information, we asians too have dignity and pride and I say if proven true, the gold medals should be removed and given to to the right athlete. Shame on you for being so patronising. Do you want me to bow to you..thank you master. Get lost.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ann D., NJ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:58:30 GMT

Anyone/country that cheats DOES NOT deserve to keep their medals/records. We have had our own USA Olympic athletes come clean and turn in their medals due to doping or other violations. The Chinese and any other country should do the same whether it is an age violation or doping violation. The Chinese say they want to be accepted by the world etc. then they need to start at home by following the rules in everything they do. By cheating they will perpetuate the bad taste some may have with their country.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Joe Virde Salt Lake City, Utah — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:00:53 GMT

If it is proven that the Chinese were underage they should be disqualified. It is so unfair for any athlete to miss winning a medal because someone cheated. There are many previous cases where an athlete has been found to have cheated and then the athlete who came in second is awarded the medal later. They worked hard to be in the Olympics too and for them to miss the glory of standing on the podium with a proper medal is unforgivable

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Qin — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:01:02 GMT

We should also look at Lin Hao, who was standing with Yao Ming during the ceremony. He is already 9 years old but looks like 5 years old. Asian people look younger than their real age.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Don Hoe — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:04:28 GMT

And to answer your question, Jenny, YES. The IOC are a bunch of losers who have been bending over for China for the past 2 weeks. From cheating, to the protests (or anti-protests), to the corrupt government blocking of websites (people living in China never even heard of the massacre at Tiananmen Square)...the IOC completely handled all of this wrong. It's cool, though. Those girls will have their tainted medals and the asterisk by their names for the rest of their lives - it's too bad, because they probably could have won fairly, but chose not to.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

steve, columbia, sc — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:05:34 GMT

I can assure everyone that the gymnasts of the Chinese Olympic team are no where near 16 years of age. In fact I would suggest that they are closer in range from 9 to 12 years of age. For sake of argument, lets just say I am very well trained in the growth and development of the facial skeleton. There are several indications that they are not of full maturity. One of which being unerupted or missing permanent dentition just for starters...
Since there is obviously tremendous pressure on the Chinese gymnastics program to produce gold medals combined with the more recent fact that gold medals can fetch tremendous financial payoffs, there is an absolute responsibilty of competing countries and the IOC to prove eligibility. The IOC spends millions of dollars drug testing athletes to ensure purity, why not do the same for age eligibility? How that proof is offered should be the real question and debate. "Government" documents can be easily altered or forged, athletes can easily lie on their eligibility forms, and there is no incentive for countries to legitimately prove otherwise.
There are a few fairly reliable and simple ways to prove a person's age +/- a year. One of which I alluded to already and that is dental age proven with radiographs or x-rays. Every dentist in the world is trained in dental eruption sequencing and many are called to identify the age of bodies who are rendered unrecognizable by accident or otherwise. It is even accepted in the world court as a means to identify an individual. Why not use it for the Olympics? It would be far cheaper than drug testing. Another way is to x-ray the growth plates of the hands and long bones. Radiologist can easily identify fusion of the growth plates which indicates cesasion of growth which would be the case for most 16 year old girls (in fact, it is one of the reasons for the 16 year old age requirement in the first place.) These methods are non-invasive and can be obtained almost instantaneously with modern digital imaging and are almost incorruptible. I can't believe they haven't considered this already.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Glen — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:07:31 GMT

Just so everyone knows, it is common in China to bribe government officials to alter birth certificate etc. at the request of parents who want to get their children into favorable schools etc. It is a joke that these girls documents would appear legitimate since why shouldn't they when it is the government themselves who is altering them, not the individuals?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Richmond, Virginia — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:26:22 GMT

Cheating is cheating, lying is lying, and the rules apply to everyone. The medals should be stripped in the name of fairness and good will towards those athletes who abide by the rules. China can't bully its way out of this one!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jane — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:27:02 GMT

Not only have you insulted the integrity of your readers, but you have insulted the integrity of Americans, the Olympics, and FIG. Shame on you. (Hmmm, I wonder how it would go over if I promoted cheating in my classroom as a means to a passing grade?)America was founded on the integrity of our founding fathers. Apparently you missed the boat...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

hak — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:30:41 GMT

I agree with everyone else, cheating is cheating no matter what way you look at it! We are all taught to follow the rules no matter how we dislike it. Oh and I guess we are supposed to just believe what their documents say, it's China, they can do what they want, kind of like the little girl that sang in the opening ceremonies, that cute little talented girl!!!Then we find out she wasn't even singing, that the talented little girl wasn't cute enough to be seen. How sick is that??? I think China misunderstood that having been chosen to have the Olympics in their country is an honor, not the right to do and say whatever you want.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kevin K., Milwaukee, WI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:30:51 GMT

According to Mike's philosophy, instead of doing doping tests maybe we should just get a document from governments saying that their athletes don't dope. Sorry, but when there is a large amount of evidence suggesting cheating might have occurred, a further look needs to take place. Which by the way mike, is happening right now.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Himynameispippylongstockings, Lalaland,Cloud9 — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:32:01 GMT

She looks too young. Other people who are of age should get the medal they deserve. And if the athelets do cheat, they are going to have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Bob Smith, Clarksville, TN — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:32:23 GMT

Yes age matters! Okay, so the US didn't do well, maybe we would have done better if we cheated too right? No, we chose the high road. Oh, and how about some patriotism. Go and live in China with your dust mask if you love Communism so much.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jenna, Evansville, Indiana — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:32:29 GMT

Okay, I see the side that states if they were under the age requirements and falsified their documents, that they should be striped of the medals that were won by those gymnasts.

However, the way I truly see it is that if a little 14 year old girl can be more graceful and on point with all of her routines than a 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 year old girl....and if she wins because she is all around better in her routine (and especially if the competitor falls).....then who cares about the age.

If a 14 year old kid is THAT GOOD, then she deserves her medal. Enough said.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Michelle, San Francisco, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:32:51 GMT

Whoever the guy is who wrote this article is without integrity and so are the Chinese. This thing shames gymnastics, hurts the girls involved, and teaches young gymnasts all over the world that it's either ok to lie and cheat or that no matter how fair you play - someone else can "beat" you BY lying and cheating. That will be a death sentence for the sport. This is also a huge demotion for the honor of the Olympics. I hope that He and Yang are promptly stripped of their medals and big publicity follows to restore integrity to the sport, to the Olympics, and to avenge the cheated losses of other gymnasts this year. This is one of the most egregiously shameful acts of the gold hungry Chinese and they ought not get away with it regardless of their burgeoning global domination.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A in Washington — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:39:19 GMT

I feel for the Chinese kids----they have to pay for the adults using them to win while violating the rules. The kids were amazing, most of the time, better the Americans (at least this Olympics). They were great, nobody can take that away from them, but if they don't qualify, they shouldn't keep the medals.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Richard N., Seattle, WA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:40:41 GMT

I'm sorry for those losing but feeling like unfair. Fair games can help competitors getting mentally/physically/skills, etc. ready for next challenges.

I would never feel like a loser if someone won by cheating.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

FREE-THINKING AMERICAN — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:43:05 GMT

Innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. That is a basic tenet of law.

Many of the posters here are ALREADY assuming guilt.

You can see/know she is not 16? Who are you, God???

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

James G, Iowa City, IA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:43:16 GMT

Gymnastics needs weight classes. Virtually all of the moves become much more difficult the larger you are. All throughout the competition China was basically doing featherweight gymnastics while everyone else was doing the real thing. Uneven bars is a perfect example. If you are short enough, you don't even have to bend your legs on giants. Flipping, twisting, balancing, everything is easier when there is only 4 feet and 70 lbs of you. Just ask yourself, which would be more impressive, a grasshopper jumping 100x it's own height, or an elephant?

Forget the age requirements, split the competition into <120 lbs and >120 lbs brackets. Same thing could probably go for diving and some other sports too.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

JS in SD — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:46:21 GMT

I can not believe that anyone would say to just get over it if the Chinese girls were under the required age. I do not think of the US gymnasts going from silver to gold, but of the fourth place finishers where it is the difference of being an olympic medalist or not. What do you say to them, 'too bad you got cheated out of your medal, those are the breaks'. The age rules are in place, regardless of whether you agree with them or not, they should be enforced. The Chinese have a documented history of falsifying ages in gymastics - just look at the 2000 games. Unfortunately you are dealing with a government that will do whatever it takes to win, even providing the gymnasts with falsified passports. This attitude should not be rewarded by letting it go. If you take that attitude, you may as well stop the whole drug testing program and let it be a free for all of who can find the most effective way to cheat. Rules must be enforced to maintain the integrity of the games.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jenna, Evansville, Indiana — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:51:05 GMT

Also, having studied in China (in particular Beijing) I have known many Chinese women. Now, while I far support Nastia and Shawn over the Chinese gymnasts since they were our own Americans and damn good.....It is entirely possible those girls are 16. Many Chinese girls and women I have known look half their age. The first time I met my friend Wu Zhen who is 26, I thought she was probably 14! To us Americans, Chinese girls/women often look much* younger than they really are.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Teri, Felton, DE — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:54:58 GMT

This issue was brought up prior to the opening ceremonies. If the rules are good enough for one, they're good enough for all. Why would they want a medal or recognition that they got unfairly? What kind of message is 'oh, let them do it' sending to our children, to others? That if you're strong enough you can get away with anything? Nice value system there.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Christimarie, San Diego, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:54:59 GMT

The rules are the rules. With documents proving age faking the IOC must disqualify the Chinese underage gymnasts or throw in the towel as far as any other rules governing the Olympic games. Their credibility would evaporate. If the gymnasts are ineligible to compete, their medals aren't worth the effort to throw them in a lake.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kevin Chu, Bethlehem, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:57:05 GMT

For a host country to cheat, that's just shameful. It's against the spirit of the Games and IOC regulations. It's worst than juicing, which usually involve individual choices. The Chinese deserve to feel crushed if and when their medals get stripped, because there must have been numerous people complicit in these acts. Everyone (govt, agencies, coaches, athletes, public, press) knew it, and simply went along with it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Joe Smith, Phoenix, AZ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:57:51 GMT

Can anyone please provide concrete evidence proving that the girl is in fact underage? Most asian girls are way older than they appear. What happen to innocent until prooven guilty?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Chris, Columbia, SC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:00:35 GMT

Typical ignorant white democrat oblivious to set rules and regulations, quick to slam the USA women's gymnastics team and holding out a hand to cheaters. Go back to your double venti mocha frappachino extra cream and your million dollar home in the ritsy white neighborhood and stick it. No wonder this country has issues that republicans always have to clean up. THose poor chinese girls...JESUS!!! Just like doping, rules are rules. You are stripped of medals for doping (ie, Marion Jones, Ben Johnson, Jerome Young)...the same should happen for age falsification. If there weren't rules, the games would be a joke.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

J. M., San Francisco, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:02:14 GMT

This is the same Mike Celzic who was so self-righteous and quick to condemn Roger Clemens the second there was even the allegation of cheating, but this type of cheating is okay? I got whiplash from that turn. Cheating is cheating, and if the Chinese team cheated, then they should be stripped of their team gold medal. The Americans won silver without cheating, so whether or not they made mistakes, they would be the rightful winners.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

william schillerstrom — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:11:29 GMT

My understanding is that the age minimum of 16 was put in place to protect young girls from being put through the dangers of injury and grueling preparation necessary for this level of competition. The same rational is behind the restrictions on giving athlete growth hormones, drugs, and steroids. Taking these substances may improve your performance but its bad for your long term heath. If some are allowed to get away with breaking the rules other will feel compelled to break the rules in order to compete on a level playing field. Basically the Chinese government is stacking the deck for their own greater glory just like the old USSR and its former communist East block counties used their Olympic athletes to prove to the world that their system was the best despite the effects on their athletes. The Chinese Olympians may get impressive results but it still a product of a totalitarian system of shifting through a billion and a half potential people from a very young age and taking those selected by the Chinese authorities away from their homes and putting them into a system paid by the Chinese government, run by the Chinese government and for the ;propaganda benefit of Chinese government. It’s sad that with all the medal counting, NBC and the other commentators are silent on of the very real negatives and abuses of this Chinese totalitarian system.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

TRUTH, IOC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:12:27 GMT

How about U.S use money to ask other contries golden team members join in U.S team. how many real american in US. TEAM? SOME OF THEM JUST BECOME AMERICAN A WHILE. U.S IS BUYING GOLD. THAT IS REAL CHEATING!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jayson, Anaheim CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:16:28 GMT

Imagine this: Shawn Johnson is 14. U.S. team wins all around team gold. I bet a majority of these comments would be drastically different.

Let's face it. That's the truth.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jon T, Miami, Florida — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:18:06 GMT

Typically moronic comment... Does it occur to you that younger gymnists are less prone to injury and their bodies are more flexible and better able to execute difficult routines? It's not a level playing field. You are a moron

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ralph, Daegu, South Korea — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:30:02 GMT

I'd like to clarify is that Asian countries, in general, do not measure age in terms of the solar calendar nor the physical act of the birth. They generally measure birth in terms of an approximation of conception and it's relation to the lunar calendar. Asian countries and their local governments responsible for maintaining family registries routinely set dates of birth on family registers and certifications that reflect these principles. So the IOC and the IFG could look at birth certificates and passports to their heart's content and not find anything wrong. I still maintain that society's greatest failure in this case is the lack of protections afforded to and the open exploitation of children around the world for many types of intent or purpose, of which I doubt there is no one country at which this finger could not be pointed. That is the true tragedy in all of this that I feel most people are missing because of their limited views and experiences.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ana Schwartz — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:30:04 GMT

Just don't understand why you guys are so sure about what media says? Think about what is happening in Georgia!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ricky — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:40:21 GMT

It is disgusting to see so many people here keep accusing Chinese gymnastics without any proof at all. The FIG already investigated this and confirmed there is no proof of any underage girl. None of the speculations here can be used as evidence in front of a judge. So just stop whining and be a noble loser. Gymnastics should compete in the stadium, not forums or TV stations.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

George Dunning — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:41:53 GMT

Mike, what an odd point of view. It's ok to not follow the rules? Age does make a difference. Not enough sleep perhaps?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Valerie L, Houston, TX — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:45:31 GMT

Mike, I think you need to retake a few of those college Critical Thinking courses. You present arguments on your thoughts in one sentance and then debunk your argument in the very next sentance. Critical thought obviously isn't your forte.

My opinion? China needs to lose those gold medals even if no one else gets them in exchange.

Why?

1) Cheating is cheating. If you cheat, you do not deserve the gold. People have been eliminated on much LESS of a fault in gymnastics. For example, take the girl (whose country now escapes me) who was vaulting and began to run toward the vault 2 seconds too soon. She was disqualified. For TWO SECONDS. And you're telling me its a-ok for China to lie and cheat like this when one girl was disqualified over 2 seconds? I don't think so.

2) Its a proven fact that the younger a gymnast is the easier gymnastics is for them. You argue that USA lost the gold due to mistakes and injury. Consider the following: Our girls were straddled with not one but TWO injuries. Both girls were older than 14. What if we had two 14 year olds instead of Chelsie and Samantha? They wouldn't of been injured by simply warming up because their bodies would have been sturdier, weighed less, had no hips or breasts to worry about, and they'd of been less stressed and less worn out. And if we had no injured girls - our team wouldn't of had the mental stress of running a competition with 2 of its 6 teammates sidelined. I do believe USA made the mistakes it did because of all the stress placed upon them at the last minute.

3) Even WITH China cheating, the stress of injured team mates, the screaming about the age, the mistakes and falls on our duff...WE STILL WON THE SILVER. Still. China only won by a small advantage even WITH their cheating. Without an advantage, I don't feel they would have won even WITH all of our mistakes.

So, um, Mike...go back to the drawing board. Your arguments suck chalk.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

H M Cheng — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:47:44 GMT

Strange and irrational. Information from websites and the media MUST hold more truth than the age recorded in the passports and birth certificates - at least for Chinese passports. This is typical of the mistrust and arrogance of the Americans. Ah, American documents must be more reliable. Still remember the Powel's photo of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

A Foreigner, PA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:48:04 GMT

I can not understand why the whole U.S. is so bitter about these two gold medals.

Do we have any valid proof? Just because they look young to you? Just because somebody claim he found some thing on the internet? Well, how about if some Chinese claim he found that Nasitia still maintains her Russian citizenship and should not be qualified as an U.S. team member?

Just a game! Blaming on the Chinese dose not the U.S. team better.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

MikeknaJ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:49:47 GMT

WRONG. Rules are rules. It doesn't matter if China won Gold, Silver, Bronze, or tin. It doesn't matter what the US won or might have won. If they cheated - and it's obvious from looking at the previously published data that they did - they should be disqualified. It's the principle that matters; especially in an event like the Olympics. Doping is wrong. Judging scandals are wrong. Institutionalize cheating like this is also wrong. China should be disqualified here - and it has nothing to do with what the US or anyone else might or might not win as a result.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Frustrated in Denver, Colo. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:53:32 GMT

I'm outraged by your comments -- only one of which actually makes sense: that more should have been done before the games to bring this issue to light.

Your comments are so idiotic, I'm wondering if you even understand sports. If the Americans had done THAT poorly and been SO affected by injuries, how did they manage a silver? And how did Liukin TIE in the uneven bars?

And you say the He didn't beat the Americans; they beat themselves. Absolutely ludicrous. No doubt mistakes were made, but if the playing field isn't even, how can a fair contest be held? If, in fact, the Chinese are underage, who knows how well their team and individual athletes would have scored if they were all of age?

I honestly believe Americans watching the Olympics will accept defeat with grace and dignity in an above-board contest. They'll be frustrated, sure, but not indignant.

I hope the wonderful western journalistic engine sticks its probe so far up the backsides of the Chinese that they walk funny for a year. The American athletes deserve to know the truth so they can truly celebrate their accomplishments, whatever the result.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

mike simth — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:59:02 GMT

The chinese cheated. The chinese are only making it worse. You know that her age will come out some day. This story will live on until the truth comes out. The AP will not let this go because americans are upset of the cheating Chinese. Shame on the chinese government for convering up. Its amazing that they government will give fake passports while the whole world knows the truth, but they continue. All government documents? You have to be kidding me.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

student — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:00:49 GMT

stop the whining and hating. the chinese girls did a phenomenal job. all this bricking about the age has taken glory and appreciating from the talent that these chinese girls have. we are americans, we are supposed to be peace-maker. i am ashamed at how this situation has been handled by so many americans and the U.S.A gymnastic coaches. like one of the person who has posted a comment above, i have a chinese girlfriend who is 25 years old, and is always mistakenly for being 16 years old. so we can't always depend on an individual's appearance to determine their age. and for those of you that are saying that this isn't an issue. well, you're wrong, it is. this issue of age came up because of how young the chinese girls looked. another thing, who are we, the americans, to accuse of chinese government corruption, when we have so much corruption in our own government. how do we know for sure the true ages of any athlete? just as the chinese, we also have motives to win the olympic. my last words are, stop hating and start appreciating. the chinese girls did a phenomenal job and so did the american girls. the chinese girls just happened to had fell less on their bottoms and made little silly mistakes. so let's forget about the age thing, and learn to appreciate the art of the sport and those that do well in it. isn't that the whole purpose of the sport? and let's represent american in a positive way by being supportive of the chinese gymnasts as did the chinese spectators at beijing were supportive to our gymnasts.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

michael — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:10:50 GMT

How do you guys believe these girls are underage? do you have definitive evidences? Thinking about our own cheating athletes, are all American people liars?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tiu, Iowa — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:20:15 GMT

Wow, even before any solid evidence is presented and proved by a third party, China has been already titled with cheating and fraud. Is this the American way to treat other people? You are what we feel/say/see who you are. No wonder about iraq's WMD then.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

bebe, los angeles, ca — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:21:09 GMT

I agree Mike!! The Karolyi's have annoyed me! They appear to want attention by putting the Chinese down, when honestly they performed better. I am a huge fan of the US gymnastics team. Yes rules are rules, but there is no hard proof the Chinese are lying.I agree with Karoly saying there shouldn't be a age limit. And I get the impression he himself would use younger athletes. I also agree parents, coaches, etc. don't complain when their girls are winning. Our opinion is just that...and I agree even when others don't.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

rus, new york, new york — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:21:13 GMT

Just because someone doesn't look 16 doesn't mean they are not 16...besides, the chinese gymnasts in question already provided birth certificates and other IDs to show they are 16 when all they needed to show were their passport, as if to say: "Here, happy? now stop crying and making false accusations."

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

hong, los angeles, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:21:52 GMT

You always believe you are right.There are hundreds of mistakes on the webpage everyday. Even BBC uses wangxin's picture as the champion of the women's diving while the it should be chen ruolin. Why don't you check how liukin get the silver medal? Her performance is much worse than the other two Chinese girls. And liukin's father even abuses the judge after the game. In last olympics, men's AA performance, the korean guy is NO1. But what did you do? You refused to give back the gold medal. It is really a shame. As the judge said, you americans didnot know gymnastics. Please respect others unless you have enough proof.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

hong, los angeles, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:22:27 GMT

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Eugene M., Wichita, KS — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:23:20 GMT

The Olympics are about enjotying the love and honor of sport. Part of sports are rules, and if you break them you get a penalty or lose. China has a history of this behavior, and it either takes a blind eye or bribed one to ignore this obvious case of breaking the age rules. I honestly don't care if the Americans get moved up in the medal standings or not, but the Chinese gymnasts whom are proven to be underage should be stripped of their medals. The rules were clearly defined before the games, and they have not changed nor should they be changed after the fact to protect those who decide not to follow them.

Starting out the open ceremony with a lip-syncing child that was 'cuter' than the girl whom was actually singing, and now this? A coming out party for the Chinese indeed! :D

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

DJ, Orlando — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:32:19 GMT

Wake up people. In the end of day suspicious does not equal fact. When Micheal Phelps won 8 golds and Bolt broke 2 world track records there are suspicious that doping is involved. When you have no proof there is no case.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Lin Dan, Shanghai — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:50:52 GMT

No wonder your country is on the decline. Just look at your IQs! Has anyone produced any material proof that the Chinese team cheated on age? Show us some proof other than "Oh I THINK she LOOKS under 16." Who cares what your midget-minded people think? Your team lost. Now get over it and grow up!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Nanyu portland OR — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:53:15 GMT

It is not even proved. And people talking about it has to be fake. What if IOC conclude He will be 16 years old this year? This is just a lame excuse for American team to feel better.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jane Doe II — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:02:57 GMT

Americans are sour losers. Period. I've seen this over and over again, no wonder the whole world despise us. I completely agree with Mike's words and thank you so much for having an objective view whereas rest of the American media is so biased, along with the coaches (who are more like cry babies). She won the medals fair and square, and meets the olympic rules. one can insist that China forged, but nobody had personally seen those "forged" documents to declare they're unreal. I, for one, was the victim of Chinese government agencies carelessness and resulted in my birthdate overstated by 1 year. They did it to my friend too. The clerks were too lazy to correct and told me I had to live with this document for a few years. So even if one found it in Chinese government website a long time ago, it may not have been correct. We can argue about this on and on and nobody can be certain of her age. So let's focus on the sports. Americans lost the game, they gave the gold away to the Chinese. Paul Hamm didn't give back his gold to the Korean guy after the judges deemed that they made a mistake. Why cry foul now? It's all the same rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

jamessudesky tokyo japan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:05:00 GMT

This was a big problem for Japan back in the last Winter Olympics, when Mao Asada, a very promising figure skater was because she was only 15 at the time was held out of the competition. Another Japanese skater, Arakawa took the gold, but the popular opinions was that everyone in Japan wished they could make an exception and allow Mao Asada to join, but the rule was the rule. And that was it.
And should be the point point with the Chinese (and other) competitors. If anyone looking at that photo believe she's, I mean He's a day over 15, they should have their eyes examined. Is that a recent photo? Yes of course, that's her on the medal podium, right?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Cal — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:32:19 GMT

Mike is way off the mark on this one. Noone has said the scoring was unfair, or that the performance of the Chinese gymnasts was anything less than spectacular. The point is that they flagrantly broke the rules and the proof is right there in official Chinese documents from 2005-2007. NOT calling them on it sets a terrible precedent and would be exactly the wrong thing to do.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Rick Busta, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:32:45 GMT

I believe that all athletes should follow rules imposed by the FIG. So far the case of He Kexin's age was "verified" by the US computer hacker but this fact does not match China's statement that He Kexin's age is 16. Therefore, a more reliable source from a third party should confirm such fact. If it is true that He is below 14 then she should be stripped of her gold medal otherwise she should keep it because she earned it. As many americans should know by know people from different races appear either older or younger with respect to their ages. Asian people look much younger to anglo people even tough when they have the same age. So before critize and judge any athletes you must get the right facts.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Paul, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:37:31 GMT

Why is it a lot of people just assume that Chinese cheated ? It seems you all can tell a Chinese women's age by her look ? This is an interesting mentality.
Don't you think that Shawn Johnson looks awfully young (maybe 12 or 14). Is USA passport a reliable government document ? Can the Chinese start accusing USA athletes on doping or doubt the USA proof is falsified. Is there any consequence for making false accusation. Making allegation is easy, if the USA made such accusation and proof to be wrong, does USA apology or continue cast doubt. I agree that sport should be fair, rule is rule, it should be applied to everyone, both USA and China. So is the doubts !

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mike — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:41:36 GMT

I think the USA team has doped. They all LOOK like they are on drugs although all official proof says they arnt. They still LOOK like they are on drugs and that's all that matters. I think IOC should investigate because they obviously LOOK like they are on drugs. (and don't tell me USA people tend to look more like they are on drugs, i don't care)
See what I did there?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Mark Reyes, Manila — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:42:04 GMT

Is there actually any proof that the Chinese athletes are underage or it is all conjecture based on "reported" information that has suddenly disappeared as stated in this article?

I also have to agree that using appearance as the method to determine age is extremely inaccurate. I'm 32, Asian, but at first glance everybody would guess my age to be 21-24. I'm not alone in this either.

If you were to use appearance as a measure, honestly I find that most Caucasian women age very badly and very fast, in that women approaching mid-thirties can look almost fifty, and in addition, girls in 6th grade have large B-C cup breasts.

In that case, who is to say that the American contestants are not a very mature thirteen or fourteen years old, backed only by valid USA ids?

I think the whole point here is that its not condoning cheating, but the rules were laid out far in advance. Passport IDs are valid if issued by a participating government. Agreeing to abide by those rules and then complaining later that a foreign government is forging IDs and claiming fraud is not only pointless, but childish.

She has a valid government-issued ID that is clearly accepted by the governing bodies of the sport as proof of age. So yes, deal with it.

The USA is supposed to be a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is upon the accuser, not the accused. So far, all I see are hypocrites on these boards.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Marie, Colorado — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:50:45 GMT

I have to disagree with your article. After the USA women won gold in Atlanta, there was a huge outcry regarding the damage to the young girls by being under-developed for their age and training techniques employed. Our own gymnasts and their families supported the decision to raise the international competition age to 16. As I recall, Dateline had several episodes on the topic.

Bella Karolyi stepped down as the face of USA Gymnastics over the scandal and Marta took over and adjusted her interaction with the girls to be more appropriate. His own gymnast was publicly critical of his training techniques and if you listen to his recent interviews with Bob Costas, Bella is of the opinion that there should be no age restriction and pointed out the reasons girls younger than 16 are preferred for competition. Thankfully, USA Gymnastics has taken a strong stand against this type of inhumane training.

If China cheated regarding the age of their competitors, they should be stripped of their medals. I would feel the same way of any country that would benefit. The point is that they cheated. They are putting the health of those children-not even young women-in severe danger. Half of their team never competed internationally prior to the Olympics according to statements made by NBC's commentators. Which deepens the mystery surrounding their ages. Also, Chinese papers have been reporting this story for months and other countries have raised concerns as well. This is not just between the USA and China.

You should conduct research on your topics before spouting off historical and current inaccuracies to suit your purposes. What happened to responsible journalism?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Dee Sloan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:51:07 GMT

This is nothing short of ridiculous. THEY CHEATED. That is the point. Don't just look at their faces look at their bodies. Shawn Johnson is exactly the same hight as one of the questioned Chinese gymnasts. Nastia Liukin did not go to Athens because she was 14. Now both Shawn and Nastia have hips and (pardon me) boobs. Look at Shawn's development then look at the girls China claims are 16 "this year". For that matter look at the Chinese team captain, stated to be 20. She also has "developed". She's the ONLY one on the Chinese team who looks like she's been in sniffing distance of puberty. Shawn Johnson is 16 and obviously HAS gone thru puberty. My 11 year old goddaughter is MORE developed than He Kexin. Seriously. I just helped her get fitted for her first 'real' bra (boy was she embarrassed) and she is definitely more developed that that alleged "16 year old".

The real point is that previous Chinese government competition rosters list an age for He that would have made her ineligible to compete at these Olympics. I don't care what documents she has provided since they were issued by a government that has been caught out lying about athletes ages before. It is a big thing. It's CHEATING. Nastia stayed home when she was 14, this girl should have too.

But, hey, a Chinese female gymnast has openly admitted that she was underage in Sydney where she won 2 bronze medals. That I know of she has yet to be stripped of them. Despite telling the world that she cheated.

If this is okay then Marion Jones should be given back her medals too. After all, all she did was break the rules and cheat to give herself a performance advantage. By your standards nothing she should have been penalized for.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kris, Honolulu, HI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:01:42 GMT

This is a big year for China. This is their chance to show the world by sheer force (in numbers) & gold's that their nation is great. We saw this in the opening ceremonies and in the fierce competition they are putting up in each sport they have competitors. In this fierce desire there have been some missteps (ie. the young girl lip-singing for the "not so cute" girl that was really singing). In the case of gymnastics there is a need to discover truth here. Not just because of the rules, but the entire sport has come under attack and rightly so (has anyone else tried to figure out the crappy new scoring system?). Gymnastics needs an overhaul. They need more competent judging and a team of officials that is ready to get hard core about ensuring the legitimacy of all the athletes competing.

It wasn't grand mistakes that cost all team USA golds (did anyone else see Nastia's awesome uneven bar routine?!) it was also judges that are not completely competent in the sport. For years now gymnastics has come under some heavy fire and they need to get it straightened out... back to the days of beautiful (and fair) competition.

Whether or not you agree with Bela and his wife (and I don't always agree with how they go about communicating) the truth is, they are the only voice "we" (the fans) have. As you and I and the next person sit here at our computers debating whether or not we should let this possible cheating go, we don't have a choice, and we don't have a voice. No one on the Olympic committee is going to jump on here, read this and go "yeah, we really do need to do something about this sport, we need to restore glory to this amazing artistic expression"... all we have are those (coaches & team leaders from whatever country they may be from) who are willing to stand up and say something is wrong with the way things are being done. If Bela is the itch that will make them scratch I say let him speak!

And for those who might pose the argument that Chinese people can often look younger than they really are... I'm in Hawaii where 80% of the population (in all their ethnicities) look younger than they really are... but when I look at a young gymnast and she looks as young as my 12 year old cousin you have to wonder.

Here's to restoring a sport that has greatness at its core!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Lee — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:10:43 GMT

Would the Americans continue to complain about the gymnasts' ages if the Chinese did not win any medals? I am all for the investigation, but the fact that we kept bringing up the issue during the game just took all the joy out of watching the gymnastic performance. Should we continue the discussion on Paul Hamm's 2004 controversy win every time an American gymnast is doing a routine?

I think American viewers and commentators complain too much. Do you think the American team will be proud of the Gold medal if the Chinese were found underage and are stripped of their title? When Walter Dix was notified that he won the bronze in the 200m track and field because the silver and bronze medalists were disqualified...moment later, he said, "I still lost..." That statement says a lot...think about it...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

kai — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:16:44 GMT

He’s problem is actually not Chinese's problem. Well maybe it is Chinese's problem, nobody can 100% sure that she is 16..

But this is certainly the US's problem. Why? Because through this issue, the Americans are trying their best to show their hypocrisy, ignorance and the willing to do anything to be No.1. "Cheating is cheating, no cheating allowed in Olympics", nice
saying. But when Hamm got that damn all-around gold medal in 2004, there were NO these DAMN SLOGANS in the same volume, in fact, they were hardly being heard. And that was damn clean truth, not like the issue today. He JUST SHOULD NOT get that medal.
So tell me, where were you, those who think "honesty, integrity, morality and capability" are so important?

So please, if you americans can't bear that much virtue, at least be straight-forward, tell us what you really want. This is the humble request of a man who wants to see a little more consistency from "the greatest nation" in the world.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kris, HI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:30:06 GMT

Ok Mark, for one, how offensive is it to say that most Caucasian women age very badly and very fast!!! I'm a Caucasian woman who thinks I'm not aging badly or fast, how rude! Secondly, (and I live in HI where we have a huge Asian population so I can say this from experience of being around Asians) a 32 year old Asian that looks 23 is very different than a young girl. My best friend is Filipino. He is 32 and most people guess he is about 25. That is very different from the looks of a young girl. Very different. A young girl 11-13 (in almost every country) looks very different than a 16 year old (yes even in China).

And back to my original point "Caucasian women age very badly and very fast" how rude!! And lastly, while I can agree with your statement that all should be innocent until found otherwise please do note that getting a forged passport in the US is a heck of a lot harder than being a "too young" gem in China and getting your government to forge one. I have been to China, I loved it, love the people, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still possible that the documents can be forged their with more ease.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Lonny, Vancouver, BC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:51:03 GMT

In the world of international sports, all rules should apply. As a Canadian, I have no particular interest in who wins: America or China. It's kind of cool to see how the two titans are stacking up against each other, however if it can be proved that China is cheating, then it loses all meaning. The Olympics are considered a way to connect nations, to unite us in the idea of sportsmanship. If China is cheating, then they are ignoring one of the main ideals of the Olympics, and either should not be allowed to participate in them, or be stripped of their medals. We can complain all we want that it's just the U.S.A. wanting another gold as opposed to silver, but lets face it; what about every other country in the event? What about 4th place, who didn't get a medal? They should just suck it up? No, cause if they're told to go do that, they'll just end up cheating too. Either we all follow the rules, or none of us do.

I'm very interested in the verdict. China guilty, or not guilty? I hope the investigation is both swift, and thorough.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Aaron DeVlaeminck, Bremerton, Wash. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:06:27 GMT

It seems odd to me that suddenly, as if god had decended from the heavens and rolled forward the years of these girls, that China, after all the previous entries in competitions and reports by their own newspapers proclaiming the girls to be fourteen, suddenly had all 16 year old girls on their team. Unless they were lying about the ages of these girls in previous years to make them younger than they were they are definately not old enough and I say STRIP the medals. Just because your the host country, the rules do indeed still apply.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jeff, Durham, North Carolina — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:15:55 GMT

Losers, what proof do you have to call the Chinese athletes underage? Just because they seem to be? Phelps seem be doped to many people around the world, does that mean he should be seriously questioned as well???

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Roger Earl — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:38:17 GMT

To a casual observer it really doesn't seem that FIG is taking its own rules seriously.
It seems naive to take the passports at face value without doing any further investigation.
A country with such abysmal record on human rights would not falter at falsifying documents to make the regime seem better.
FIG needs to perform more detailed investigations. Otherwise they will head down the same road as baseball and wrestling.
Turning a blind eye to cheating will not protect the legitimacy of the sport.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Jason Clark, Rodeo, Ca — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:59:50 GMT

Many of the folks here just want this to be cleared up. I don't assume they are too young to compete but questions have been raised and they should be followed up. It's the right thing to do if the Olympics are to have any validity. It's not about the 'ignorant' people just sulking because their nation didn't win some medals. The rules need to be followed or it's all meaningless.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Grace Griffin — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:25:24 GMT

I remember years ago the Chinese age was counted when they were born. The day they were born they were one year old.
I wonder if that is still the case? In this way all the documents would note the gymnist as being 16 when in American years she would be 15 yrs. old.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Chan, Hong Kong, China — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:30:55 GMT

No one knows if the Chinese girls' gymnastics team lied about their ages except the ones closed to them. It's really hard to find out their real ages since the registration system of Chinese citizens (when one born or marry)is chaotic.
Many people registered only when needed.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Alexander, Fairfield, California — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:38:44 GMT

"Olympic track star Marion Jones was sentenced in a federal court Friday to six months in prison, two years of probation and community service for lying to federal prosecutors investigating the use of performance-enhancing substances."

She also had to foreit all her medals. This is the sort of thing that happens in America. I have seen a lot of nonsense in this blog about how it works here and how decent people think here.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Marco Perches, — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:44:29 GMT

Mike this article is trash. So since China could cheat, and won, we should just let them be? Forget the rules? I don't care who would have won or what ever, but the rules are there for a reason! Why have them if you are just going to flaunt them! The fact that the Chinese government was complicit by forging new birth certificates and pass ports shows just how dishonest they are.
Every competing nation should have to follow the rules. What does it say to the hard work of every nation who doesnt cheat, who worked hard training eligible competitors, when we allow this sort of thing? It spits on it, thats what! It is a smack in the face to every honest gymnast.
Also, I echo the sentiments of others. Had it been the US that was doing the lying, you can bet the world would be crying for our heads, medals would be stripped and the international media would be abuzz of the US cheaters. Heck, why dont we just let all the cheaters have their way, Lets givelittle Danny Almonte a hall of fame spot! Heck and while were at it, since rules apparently mean nothing to you Mike, why dont we just go head and legalize steroids in sports! or doping. or corking bats.
Rules are rules for a reason, and are to be obeyed.
I dont care that the US got silver or who would have won, its just a matter of rules.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Sunny Dee — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:51:02 GMT

I know you can't judge a person's age just by looking at them, but this girl doesn't even have all of her adult teeth. There are younger Chinese athletes competing in other events who bodies look like teenager's bodys and they just happen to have all of their adult teeth. Only the Chinese gymnasts are late bloomers? The world will know the truth in 2012 when these same gymnasts show up with their developed bodies and a mouth full of teeth.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

TonyS, Vermont — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:57:11 GMT

Guys, it is the fox guarding the hen house. All Mike is saying is that there's no way to prove that the Chinese are lying because they are the arbiter of the records and can falsify whatever they want. Also, the Americans still should've won and only have themselves to blame for losing. He's not saying it is okay to cheat.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Cici — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:29:41 GMT

I still don't understand how people can judge the other's age by apperance. From difference perspective, people from different countries "determine" their age in different ways. Plus now, it's been officially saying there's no actual proof for underage, and the debate is still going on ..... saying how sure they know she is underage, HOW CAN YOU BE SURE???!

If age is such a number 1 important factor in this sport (i'm not saying not), and how the younger the age can benefit the game, wouldn't Germany's Chusovitina, aged 33 cannot win the game "according the ages"??

Yes, rules are rules, but now with NO PROOF, just move on people, don't criticize the others

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

R Smith — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:55:20 GMT

Weak reporting, Mr. Celizic. As another person pointed out, this problem was reported on prior to the start of the Games and the officials chose to not investigate because the "passports" confirmed their birthdays were within the age limit. Most smart people concluded that any totalitarian government can print anything they choose on their passports. As beautiful as these Olympics have been, this is not a country known to be forthcoming. I can't figure out why the IOC is so intimidated by this country that has a sad history of being forthcoming about a plethora of incidents and issues.

There are plenty of good reasons that girls under 16 should not compete. Get with the program Mike; you're wrong. I don't care who was is second or third place; this is not an American issue.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Bobby G, San Antonio, Tx. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:26:06 GMT

Really, Mike... Don't whine about the RULES... Then why follow any rules?? The rules exist to give every team a level playing field for fair competition - without that why would we bother?? IF the Chinese goverment is found to be attempting to defraud the entire world by pepetuating this hoax then they should be banned from ever hosting the Olympics again and should be banned from the 2012 games as well...

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Neo, Irvine, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:30:48 GMT

It is not cheating. They show He's current passport, earlier passports, birth certificate and many other proofs to FIG and IOC. There are many other side facts can prove her age, including some video tapes we can see on Youtube. However, the media here in US does not want to report this in details at all, why? because we, the audience, don't want to hear that. We find a cheating Chinese team a better reason to explain why US team lose. The ultimate goal of media is to keep audience and make money. Period.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Elizabeth Tan, New York, NY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:46:35 GMT

The Chinese government and whoever made the decision to enter underage girls are an embarrassment to Chinese people everywhere. I'm Chinese and it makes me sick to be associated with them. The issue is not how well anyone performed in the competition. The issue is sanctioning a "Oh well, some people cheat so get over it" attitude that destroys everything that the Olympics is supposed to stand for.

It's simple: Steroid use? Strip the medals. Underage gymnasts? Strip the medals. Performance is not the issue.

Additionally, it's ridiculous to focus an investigation on the word of the people who cheated. Asking the Chinese government to produce documents that support their position is like asking a pedophile if he molested kid then saying "okay" when he shakes his head.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Red Dog Orlando — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:24:22 GMT

to all you gripers, quit casting stones. all of you have lied and cheated at some time in your life. those of you who are denying right now are lying right now. get over it.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

tree hugging sister — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:34:09 GMT

Being 14 when the age requirement is 16 is okay, but, say, steroids in baseball aren't? Oh wait ~ you DO think Barry Bonds is no big deal, because we "all cheat". You wrote:

"Does anyone detect a note of hypocrisy in this? Does anyone who reviles Barry Bonds as a cheater admit to even the tiniest flaw in his or her own personal code of ethics? Do any of us stop to consider that Bonds, who has never tested positive for any banned substance, isn’t doing anything that just about every one of us has done at one time or another?"

nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20187111/

You're right, Big C. Rules were made to be broken and every sorry SOB should get away with EVERY sorry thing they EVER did because we're ALL sorry...in YOUR world.

You're pitiful.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Henry Ho, Toronto, Ontario — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:02:06 GMT

The IOC had proved no wrong on the age of He, then we should respact their finding. They are the game commity. It is not for me or you to judge the case.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

John Doe, Seattle, WA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:29:43 GMT

Nice fishing for hits.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Brad Baldwin — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:50:12 GMT

Seems pretty simple. Show up late for your event: DQ. Step on the line during race: DQ. Take any banned substances: DQ. Lie about your age : DQ. If the rules apply to anybody they have to apply to everybody or it would be chaos and impact the integrity of the Games.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Andrew Young, San Diego, California — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:06:50 GMT

Yes, it is about fairness, is it fair acusing the Chinese athletes are cheating without proofs?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Chris Amon, Little Neck, NY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:56:31 GMT

I felt that all of a sudden that the International Olympic Committee will stripped off the Gold Medals from the Chinese Women's Gymnastics Team because one of the Chinese gymnast athlete He Kexin is 14 years old, she has to be at least 16 years old to enter and be eligible to participate. She is too young of her underage. At this moment when I said that this Gold Medals should upgraded for the United States of America Gymnastics Team in Beijing 2008. I am so sorry.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

QJlee — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:36:36 GMT

Even when Chinese provided additional docunemtation to prove the actual age and the IOC announced that this case has been closed, American media still talk about what if these gymnastics are underage, still reluctant to admit that this case has been closed, and some American still talked cheating. The issue is that American are still dreaming their are No.1 in the world and whoever superpass them is cheating. If you don't want to admit defeated, how can you learn and how can you catch up.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Arky 2x2 Birmingham,AL — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:27:42 GMT

How can one say that the USA team lost due to mistakes? Did you not see the mistakes made by the Chinese that were MORE glaring than the USA? But their scores were higher.
4 of the 6 judges are from countries that have never medaled.
As I was watching I started noticing scores were higher for Chinese. I was turned off about the fact that one girl fell off the beam but won the bronze. How is it her routine ranked that high?
And a tie? Other sports gave two gold and no bronze in ties but NOT in gymnastics.
I hope that gymnastics will be reviewed HARD and become equitable for all countries.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Stephanie, US Army, Iraq — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:05:19 GMT

Andrea Raducan was the gold medal AA winner in the 2000 olympics. Post competition tests revealed that she had taken a cold remedy that the Romanian physician gave her. It was a banned substance and she was stripped of her medal. It was a tragedy and no one believed that she cheated on purpose (she was cleared of all wrong doing on her part) but the substance was banned and therefore, the medal was taken. It was very sad but was done in the name of the rules.

If the Chinese government knowingly falsified ages - it broke the rules. Regardless of the American's performance, regardless if it gave them no advantage, regardless if the Chinese came in dead last.

The US has some darn good Juniors who would have loved to have been able to represent their country in the Olympics. But it was against the rules.

Why is this point even a debate? If a cold pill which could not possibly have an advantageous effect on an athlete can disqualify Raducan - why would a government's systematic falsification of the ages of athletes be of no interest to fair minded sports fans??

Interesting.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Ann — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 07:11:08 GMT

So many haters... it is not proven that He is underage and yet most people already assume the Chinese cheated. But then again, I guess since the Americans didn't win the gold, they have to find some way to vent out and the best way to do it is to say other people cheated.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Danny, Colorado — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:27:06 GMT

Cheating is cheating. Of course, some US athletes have cheated in the past, but the cheating was not sponsored by the US government. If those Chinese gymnasts are actually underage, then the Chinese government is cheating for them. There is a big difference between individuals cheating and government sponsored cheating.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Daisy, Anywhere, North Carolina — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:12:02 GMT

The writer of this article is clearly a far left politically correct loon. You especially don't want to hurt their feelings.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Kristi — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:06:46 GMT

Did the saying, "Rules are meant to be broken" originate in China?

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

DC, Missouri — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:09:06 GMT

We have rules for a reason. Whether or not we like them is not the issue. We wouldn't let a 14 or 15 yr old drive a car, vote, or join the military. The FIG has their reasons for the rules they put in place. Our gymnasts not competing up to their expectations is not the issue, following the rules is. The olympics are about more than winning or losing, they are about representing your country with good sportsmanship, honor, and integrity. That means fair play by all of its athletes. When athletes are caught doping (even after the fact) they lose their medals. Falsifiying documents regarding age or any other requirements is as shameful as doping and should not be tolerated. While I cannot say with absolute certainty these gymnasts were underage, I highly suspect this to be the case. I am a mom of 4 and can tell you that they do not look to be 16. I am not just talking about their size, I know that typically Chinese women are smaller and look younger than they are, but the missing teeth are a sure giveaway. They were compared to the Japanese being small in their argument for their ages, but even the Japanese gymnasts didn't look that young.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Tamm, Elyria, OH — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:34:46 GMT

What message does this send to our young children? They were telling stories how Chinese children at age 2 and 3 were already being hand picked and removed from their families if they were showing any abilities. The eldest competitor for the Chinese Gymnast wanted to go home to her family and they would not let her go. Doesn't anyone else see anything wrong with this?!?!

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Renee P, Rockville, MD — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:00:03 GMT

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. If the Chinese were on trial then the venue should definitely be changed because the Karolyis have polluted the public's opinion of the case so much. Look at how everybody's mind was already made up.

I think it's the way they complained (calling the Chinese girls "babies" and "half human") that was most classless, lacking in sportsmanship. Shame on them for turning Olympics into a circuit. It was nauseating to watch.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

Renee P, Rockville, MD — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:15:57 GMT

To all you haters. The Chinese don't hate you. If you were at the games. You would have seen how the Chinese cheered for the Americans (they cheered for the best athletes including Nastia and Shawn), it's almost like having the home field advantage except you're not at home. It really makes me sad to see how people here are so quick to judge against the Chinese on something that's difficult to prove. It's something I can't quite appreciate about the American culture. I don't hear nearly the same volume of complaints against the financial sector who made out with 60% of the revenue last year in compensations and left you with no houses. It's really a shame.

Don't gripe about Chinese gymnast's age

stephanie, los angeles ca — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 03:40:19 GMT

honestly I think it should be a matter of medal removal not only for the gymnasts individually but the whole team for the women. If the results come out to prove that the majority of the girls are underage the entire team should be stripped of their gold medal, because if they knew the truth why not say anything. If the result is different then thats that won fair and square