In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Judy, Batavia, IL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:34:48 GMT

The Chinese have been known to work their athelets harder than most countries. You can see it in the diver who now is near blind from hitting the water too hard too many times. This rigorus training for gymnasts has to be really hard on a fully developed body but when that body is still growing I can only imagine how bad they will feel for years to come when the repercussions of this abuse hits them and they feel it every day. I admit the US has more robust children for the most part and usually boys are bigger than girls here but these girls are smaller than my 10 year old boy, which scares me. How young are these girls? I’m sure the government gives their families some additional benefits for their daughters being trained for the Olympics but is it worth it? If you look at what is perceived as the beginning of the Olympics I thought they were grown men testing their physical achievement against others, not children being trained their entire life to perform for a committee.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

John, MI — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:38:41 GMT

Honestly, physical age is nothing, there are people out there that are 30 years old and naturally look like they are 17. Same for the reverese (see greg oden) Should he have been allowed in the NBA when he was 11 cause he probably could have physically passed for 28 year old then.

The rule is 16, if they broke it they should be punished, if not the american girls got straight beat

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Kathy in Maine — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:25:34 GMT

Now you're just being sarcastic. Continue to let all coaches abuse these children because it's too hard to stop everyone from doing it?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Leon, VA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:38:54 GMT

you must be kidding.I'm an asian that's 13 years old and people tell me I look like I'm 7 years old. Admit it, you know nothing of the Chinese culture.America is just griping that we can't win.Hmm... first gymnastics then diving. Interesting how it is the sports that America lost at but China won. Interesting...Oh, by the way, asians are genetically really tiny. You, author, are you a physician? M.D? Ph.D? No? oh wow, then you must know tons about average heights and whatnot.Stop whining.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Con, Barbados — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:49:50 GMT

Quite interesting but what people do not comment on is the fact that many americans become sexually active very early and this attributes to a more womanly shape. The chinese and many othetr cultures do not engage in sexula activities early and the girls look like girls and not women

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Con, Barbados — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:50:42 GMT

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Tony, Middlebury, vermont — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:57:56 GMT

I watched an interview with Shawn Johnson’s parents in Beijing with the Vermont local channel before she got the gold in Beams. The journalist kept referring Shawn as their 15 year-old daughter. I doubt this was a mistake, since neither her father nor her mother corrected the journalist, especially because she repeated it several times. If Shawn is also under-aged, should IOC also investigate in her age and strip her from the metals she earned for the fairness of the game?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Thelma Escleo Wenatchee Washington — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:06:43 GMT

I think I agree with the people saying that Gymnast chines girls are under age. The first time we saw them on TV, we thought there thirteen years old? So now that the world is agreeing of what we thought, I should say were right!

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Kate, Chicago, IL — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:21:02 GMT

Mike, you've got a serious point. We make requirements for models these days about their weight, why can't we do the same for gymnastics? Granted, models are not doing back flips down the runway but we should be more concerned about the proper training and health of our athletes regardless of the sport.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Christine Jassak, Chicago, Il. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:40:27 GMT

One will never get a straight answer out of the Chinese. Bela is correct the younger the less fear they have hence the higher,faster,stronger they can go. With no female body weight it even becomes easier. However, if it's fair for one, then just take down the age requirements and let all partake regardless of age..... then the rest of the countries can put of their young girls as well.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Eric, Michigan. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:44:17 GMT

I heard a little about this a few years ago, and it stuck with me, because, for the first time I actually felt guilty watching these girls. I'd concider this borderline abuse if not a few inches over that line. But then again, i'm sure the government also forged the documents that state where this "line" actually is.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Janice Aseltine, Vineland, NJ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:45:33 GMT

I fully agree. As much as I enjoy watching gymnastics, I am concerened that the girls are being pushed way too hard. I think trying to push for a "Physical Age" limit would definitely invoke cries of racism from asians who are naturaally smaller than Americans and Europeans. However, a good step in the right direction would be a mandatory dna check by the IOC for all gymnasts before the olympics and possibly the world championships to verify the athleats ages.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Howard Presnall — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:37:08 GMT

If only the powers to be would read this. Thanks for putting in print what a lot of people have been saying.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

BigMike60, Elizabethtown, KY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:40:07 GMT

I agree 1000% with this column. Until they can demonstrate breast development and menstuation they should not be allowed to compete. Otherwise call the events "little girls gymnastics." I can recall about the time Olga Corbett and Nadia were big names, some really good femaled gymnasts were announcing their retirements at 23-26 years of age because they were "too old" for women's gymnastics. What a joke, they were just hitting their prime. I would add that the scores on the diving should be adjusted as well because there is no way that a 5' tall, 75 pound girl is going to splash as much as a 5'6" 140 pounder when entering the water. All you hear is "no splash" great dive, "too much splash" mediocre dive. It is absurd. Size and weight do matter. And sadly, all this doesn't even reflect the skewed judging that has gone on.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Ted Cheng — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:40:23 GMT

Your post is a joke. The china girls cant even pass for 12? Who are you to even state your opinion?

Have you ever been to china and seen teenage girls?
Have you ever been to china and visited high schools?
How can you judge these girls by their breast size..

Even the IOC claims there was no cheating.

People like you have one-sided judgments and push biased opinions into the world.

We live in China and know what chinese women look like. Chinese gymnasts are always smaller than American and European girls. Even the japanese team was the same size of China, although you may have thought they looked "slightly older".

The simple fact of the matter is that the United States got beat down. I'm sure if the USA had won gold medals like they had in the past, this issue would not of been raised from the start!

Again, the IOC ruled with China, end of discussion.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Dartelle Dodge, Newport NH — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:42:34 GMT

Perhaps it would be wise too discontinue the olympics.In some countrys ,the pressure too win, on the individual athletes,is almost criminal, and the money that is spent by the host countrys too build stadiums and so forth while many of their population is starving is truely criminal.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Caleb, Pembroke, NC — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:50:26 GMT

I agree that "forced training" is unhealthy for children and that overtraining is possible.

However, in my opinion you have poorly presented your arguments.

Your post contains strong and seemingly unsupported statements that don't appear to reflect due diligence.

Putting aside the fact that the Chinese government wants this Olympics to go perfectly, and would be unlikely to do something so unsportsmanlike as to engage in illegal activities (this Olympics is more important to China than a few gold medals):

One could just as easily say that Chinese women tend to look younger in general (personal opinion). One forty-five year old Chinese woman I met appeared to be in her mid twenties. Have you researched whether Chinese girls mature later than western girls? Whether biological or diet related it could be a factor.

Also, Chinese tend to have slighter frames than their western counterparts. Try comparing Liu Xiang's frame to those of his competitors.

One final observation from extensive personal exposure to athletes in general: Anyone who doesn't eat right will underperform and is susceptible to injury.

Should you be interested in experts backing these alternatives to your positions, I would be happy to dig a few up.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Peter Koenig, Long Branch, NJ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:54:44 GMT

I concur that age restrictions at the Olympics are fundamentally useless. Authoritarian regimes will always be able to "cheat" as to the age of competitors. Sadly, they will also inflict suffering upon young athletes, for the purpose of justifying their political systems, whether or not those children are of "Olympic age." Visually, and irrespective of the age controversy, the U.S. women gymnasts appeared to be robust, well-muscled and healthy -- physically and mentally. I cannot say the same for some of their Chinese counterparts.

What's the answer? International supervision of training methods?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Tuyet Tran — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:57:22 GMT

Yes, I am agree with you. Weight with heigh should be balance w the age, too. No child abuse for any sport.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Neo, Irvine, CA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:02:00 GMT

They are not cheating. They provided He's current passport, earlier passports, birth certificate and many other proofs to FIG and IOC. There are many other side facts can prove her age, including some video tapes we can see on Youtube. Unless people argue that everything was faked since she was born. However, the butt of the media here in US decides what they write. They prefer to reporting the suspiciousness instead of the facts. They even started voting assume He Kexin is underage. why? because we, the audience, prefer to hearing that. We find a cheating Chinese team a better reason to explain why US team lose, we find a cheating chinese team a better fit to the image of chinese govenment, which is again, resulting from the selective media reports. The ultimate goal of media is to keep the audience and make money. Period.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

wawa Lee New York city, NY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:02:26 GMT

Hi, Mike: how do you prove physical age? by breast and hip size? Many of asian women don't have that. By weight, european-origin women tend to have heavier bone density and weigh more in general than asian women do. Also, outer appearance doesn't mean anything. I have tons of Asian friend in their 30s still get carded for buying cigarets here,

My point here is to hold another culture at this culture's standard is absurd. That's what we tend to do in lots of aspects of our life in America. Think outside of the box, Mike. Maybe you should spend some time living in NYC so that you will be more culturally enriched to change your myopic view.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Suzanne in Los Angeles — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:14:29 GMT

If the Chinese were perfectly willing to misrepresent to the world as "live" the lip-syncing performance of one little girl for something as innocuous as the singing of their national anthem at the opening ceremonies, can there be even the slightest doubt that they would do the same with another little girl in order to win Olympic gold?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Debra Riedy Las Vegas NV — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:20:22 GMT

This is cheating. If the Chinese government is in on this than shame on them. I can't believe a government would knowingly cheat like this. Do they want the gold medals that bad? They may be ahead of us in the gold medal race, but we won ours fair and square.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Tim C. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:24:33 GMT

I agree with you most of the time, Mike, but not on this one. Gymnastics, particularly women's, is complicated and strange enough already without mandating minimum height-weight requirements, let alone requiring girls to have reached puberty!

I do agree it's weird to keep these girls so small on purpose, and I get tired of seeing waif-like girls competing in gymnastics and figure skating, but they choose to be there. If they know the risks, the athletes and their parents should be prepared to live with the consequences.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Chris Patterson, Richmond, VA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:29:08 GMT

Is it possible that they the Chinese are that arrogant that they think they could get away with this?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

straittalk — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:51:00 GMT

The premises of restricting girls of certain age to prevent child abuse is utterly laughable. Please name which top female gymnasts were not trained in early childhood: Shawn Johnson (6)?, Nathia Liukin(5)?, the chinese and Romanians? Even though Carolyi couple are obnoxious and disgusting, I agree with them that IOC should do away the age limit for female gymnasts. The rule does not serve anybody.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

MELISSA, DALLAS , TEXAS — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:04:37 GMT

In the end..... The fact is no matter what age they are.... they are simply better.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Char B Eugene, OR — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:23:57 GMT

Not only should the documents be examined but the judges in the Gymnastics should also be scrutinized. The scores they gave the Chinese girls did not match the talent of the girls. Something a little fishy to me. Not saying our girls should have won everything but come on let's be fair to all the legitimate gymnasts that competed. If these girls are proven too you I would think the Chinese government would lose more than honor. JMHO

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

kristoph — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:44:36 GMT

My wife is Japanese. She is 5' 0" and, in her 30's, weighs 84 pounds. You can be assured she does not, and never has, engaged in any calorie restricted eating habits and she exercises no more than any other American mom.

By Japanese (and I imagine Chinese) standards she is the perfect weight for her size.

He Kexin is 4' 8" and weight 73 pounds but she is at least 15 years younger then my wife and is an Olympic athlete.

Your suggestion that she is unhealthy and that her coaches are engaging in unethical behavior to keep her unhealthy is obviously just your opinion based on no actual facts.

Your expectation of her weight and her body - especially your comments about her breasts - are a gross example of ethnocentrism which you have no place in journalism.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

bobo houston tx — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:53:05 GMT

Hi,the real reason behind this seemiling reasonable issue is American teams lost their gold medal which they thought belonged to them before the games.And where did you get that idea that China is not an open country so the government will forge those fake documents to prove the girls' age?Can I assume that because several famous American players are also much more famous for their doping so I can conclude that phelps also has the possibility in using doping?It is not a shame to lose the games but it is really a shame to write those shameful falsities.Shame on you!

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

John — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:57:34 GMT

Loser always seeks for excuse...shame on you

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Tim, Louisville, KY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:08:24 GMT

That's the best thing Mike has ever written. Great article!

Michael Phelps ain't the greates Olympian ever, though. Not until basketball is broken down into 20 separate events, so a Michael Jordan can grab 20 golds--like dribbling event, dunking event, 1/2-court game, full-court game, 3-point event, blocking event, half-court shot event.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Todd Tidwell, West Monroe, LA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:12:02 GMT

Just a thought! Instead of everyone questioning the age of the chinese gymnasts, maybe they should think about the fact that 16-18 year old girls with more experience lost a number of events to 11-12 year olds or younger. I understand, a rule is a rule and we can not do anything about false documents, but hats off to those little girls if they are really that young and can compete at the same level as the older girls.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Carl , greensberg — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:13:37 GMT

I knew Chinese Government can do anything they want to do. I am doubt about those girls ages in Gymnastics. I was told by friends that some Chinese changed their ID in order to get visa from other countries like US, Australia, UK.....

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Susan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:21:59 GMT

It is just inhumane and barbaric to starve these poor girls and work them to death. Rules are there for a reason. People will say Nastia wasn't the better gymnast but we played by the rules. Olympians signify hard work with dignity and class. To abandon the rules set for all Olympians should reflect negatively on any country. I am proud to be an American!!

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Henry Johnson — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:38:52 GMT

This is certainly a good idea. However, puberty is a process. It's not a point of time in a female's life. So, using it as a criterion could be difficult. Of course, we can test the hormones to make sure that the onset of puberty occurred. But, the onset of puberty itself is known to be varying depnendent on genetic, environmental and other factors. The racial difference for the onset of puberty is known to be large. Some articles suggested that the blacks tend to have early onset of puberty and the asians tend to have late onset. Also, as you would expect, the nutrition intake would impact the onset of puberty. There are countries that are relatively poor. So, this will impact the opportunities for participating. Well, this could be a problem. And, even worse, when there is a criterion based on hormone testings, people will develop methods to mess with the hormones. That will lead to more damage. Also, when and how to test are always a problem. Given these, I guess using puberty as a critrion may be a little challenging.

Minimum body fat and minimum weight are also problematic because of the various factors impacting these measures. In some countries, it's just not too uncommon to have small body frame and light weight.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Richard, Ashburn, VA — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:44:31 GMT

I don't agree. You want to set the minimum body-fat and weight requirements to block out some top "girls" so we American can win?? How about others also want to set the maximum height for playing basketball or volleyball?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Karen, Calgary, Canada — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:53:25 GMT

Being Chinese, I was always smaller and at the age of 16 I was only 64 pounds and definitely didn't look my age. I think because of China's political structure and stories from the past where they aren't very open about their issues, people scrutinize them more compared to other countries. I'm sure they migh have forged documents for these girls but then again out of 1.3 billion people I'm sure there are also girls that are 16 and look 12, I might not live in China but I know that when I was 16, I could have passed as one of those girls.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

K Adell — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:56:07 GMT

All of these sound like great ideas. There isn't a way to fake someones weight. Age can be tampered with on fake documents. Tha much has been proven at this year's olympics. Weight, body fat, puberty, they all sound like great ideas. It would definetely level the playing field and promote these athletes to maintain a healthier lifestyle.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

jane doe — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:08:58 GMT

wow, it sure sounds like you know alot about what it takes to be a gymnast and compete in the world of competitive gymnastics. Why don't you go into all the gyms across america and crush the hopes of every little girl learning to tumble across the balance beam and say, hey, we'll only let you compete once you're body can't take it anymore.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Andrew, Eugene, Ore. — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:54 GMT

I have yet to hear cries for weight limits for weight-lifters or summo-wrestlers that cite the physical risks of being overweight. Is this a double standard, or have current age limits for female gymnasts been campaigned for by the MacDonald's corporation?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

ANON — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:52:23 GMT

Boy did you nail it there! Stop tormenting these poor young bodies and let them mature properly like in any other sport! Then let them compete.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Donna Ables, Wickenburg, AZ — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:56:05 GMT

It does not speak well of China putting on such an impressive opening ceremony then just to get gold cheat. This is a world stage and all eyes are on China and the IOC. I read only the "English Speaking World" is bothered by this. Certainly we are not the only ones with morals and values. If you dared to falsify any athletes age on the American team you would be crucified. Thank you United States for playing by the rules. We all know you are all "Golden"

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Gary, Colorado — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:32:09 GMT

If the gymnast have to be 16 to compete, whats the age limit for the condoms their handing out lol!

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Al Freeman, Buffalo, NY — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:44:56 GMT

Sour losers... Pathetic writing. Some people cannot take defeat, but to be so sour? Chinese won fair and square. They are brilliant athletes and have a fantastic sports program. Moreover, Chinese are hard workers and phenomenally talanted in anything that requires skill. USA used to be that way but laziness and mediocrity are taking over. Give Chinese their dues - they are better in Olympic sports!

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

SuperSaint — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:06:32 GMT

Depriving thin girl's right to compete sounds more like a communism to me. As Americans are stripped off the medals, its disgusting to see the extend they go to suggest ways to retain their might. If Americans couldn't lose their pride and blame everything from rain to age when they lose, its better for them to hide in the hut next time and not to compete with others. No wonder there are so many pathetic people there calling for a boycott to the games.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

MN, Waterloo, IA — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 02:22:02 GMT

It's not hard to believe that China would go to any lengths to lie about the ages of gymnasts, considering they have not allowed their citizens the right to free speech/protest after having their homes destroyed to build the ultimate Olympic village. Beyond this, they have ordered at least one such person (elderly) to a re-education camp for a year for requesting a permit to protest. They provided no information for days about the dancer who was injured and faces possible paralysis - all for what? To construct an image which in no way resembles the reality of abject poverty for so many Chinese, and a total lack of respect for human rights. They have made a mockery of what the Olympics is all about, so it's no stretch to envision them forcing their children to lie about their ages. Shameful!

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Veronica Glasgow, UK — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 02:46:14 GMT

I really find this whole rant to be somewhat disturbing to tell you the truth. I'm an ex-competitive gymnast and therefore know all about the trials and tribulations these girls are enduring. Yes, we have a restricted diet but it is certainly no where near as horrible as 4000 to 1500. Infact, I recall eating Big Mac after practice with the coach's daughter. AND to be quite frank, I did have body fat test done before being allowed to compete... it was to make sure I had enough body fat for my organs to function properly and maintain good health but no more than that. In my opinion I see nothing wrong with this. It is simply assuring that a world class athlete is in top condition. How is this wrong?
Yes, gymnasts look young. But it is in no way unhealthy! I mean I could lift my 200lbs father at age 10. Unhealthy children cannot do this! I compelely resent any suggestion about trying to delay puberty in competetors. Can we point to Dominique Daws? She was a gorgeous fully developed woman who's graceful and powerful tumbling only came after puberty! Bela himself said this!
Yes, gymnastics is a grueling sport and if one is to succeed, one has to give their whole self; heart, mind, and body. But I will say with 100% conviction that I would not take back one practice (even the one where I dislocated a shoulder, or practically tore my hamstring in two, or desimated my pad in my right knee) because of everything I got from being part of an amazing experience. I'm have been out of competition for 4 years now. I have normally developed hips and breasts (geez!) and my body has injuries but I know how to take care of them for the long term. I was part of a team. I had a family outside of my home. I had fun and a purpose growing up. It taught me the amazing level of determination and discipline I have today. I never give up on anything, I just work harder. I can say that is beacuse of gymnastics(I honestly can). I loved the sport. The individual effort and team comradery. It is beautiful and gritty all at the same time. Watching these girls do these fantatics stunts only brings back the warm glow of memories from when my coach used to push me until I thought I would collasp; only to accomplish the next stunt and be feel so accomplished and be praised for my efforts. How wonderful it felt to fly through the air like I had wings. The sport on its own was reward enough!Yes, there are things about the sport (as with any sport) that are a little less charming. Like how young you have to start and how demanding it can be psychologically... but as an grown adult I can say the rewards are far more worth it than anything else ever.
We are complaining because as Americans we are being bested in yet another field by the Chinese (Goodness me!) but to be honest I'm glad because for the sake of the sport, American gymnastics has been waning for the last 3 years. It is time we stepped it up a notch! So, take the defeat, recuperate, and go for it next time just that much harder!
As an end note: My bone density is just fine! I am on the low end of normal- but it is still NORMAL
And I say all of these things about gymnastics even after having my career ended by a double compound fracture to my left ankle during a practice where I completely botched a dismount from the uneven parallels...

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

CJ, Omaha NE — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:21:43 GMT

I noticed Mary Lou Retton in the stands during one of the events. I would be very interested to hear her opinion on this issue. And whatever happened to Kim Zmeskal?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Helen, LA — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:22:44 GMT

The chinese girls look young to me too. I was doubting about their age too. I can not say the age about He Kxin. But for Jiang Yuyuan (people doubt about her age too), I saw these videos today in youtube, It called "Dream Weaver Beijing 2008", it features China's 7 years preparation for the Beijing Olympic, including building projects and athletes training. In the later part of the first link, it said China started to select and train the young female gymnasts since 2003, Jiang Yuyuan was in the video. It seems in 2003 training camp, when a younger Jiang was asked how old she was among several other girls, she said 12. If she was 12 in 2003, then in 2008, she is 17. She was featured in the rest of the videos too. The video also featured Deng Linlin too, This Deng looked like a kid in the Olympic game too. It looks like they stayed in a training camp for years, and it was a camp that was for young girls who were selected from all over China to prepare the 2008 game. And Deng looked like the same then and now. While you can still argue that they lied about their age since the start, but if they lied since start, their age shouldn't show up as younger in 2006 and 2007. Mystery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8ZwHd2GA8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSbn0UQVG8o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPKfqA7rRw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB1a5KXXYpc&feature=related
Unfortunately, the video is in chinese.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Helen, LA — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:50:14 GMT

Here are the continuous of the videos "Dream Weaver Beijing 2008", Jiang Yuyuan and Deng are continued to be featured. You can see Jiang Yuyuan grew up a little bit since she was in the first video when she said she was 12 in 2003.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0yKXDJuoTs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIOrw9OPnm8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la-cu51iqX8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGzAxh2CxaQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qepVsSBvCM0&feature=related

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Bob Arnold, Chicago, Ill. — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:59:51 GMT

Sorry, Mike. Calendar age is absolutely the issue here. Bone density and child abuse issues aside, the point is, there's convincing evidence uncovered by the New York Times and the Associated Press that the Chinese girls are indeed under-age. If so, they broke the rules. And here's why Team USA has a right to be upset -- even though we haven't heard a peep out of the athletes, who've shown nothing but respect for the little girls they competed against: The U.S., too, has 14 and 15 year olds who could have had an impact at the 2008 Olympics with the proper attention and training. Nastia Luikin certainly would have been a force four years ago in Athens had she been old enough under the rules. Mike writes an entertaining, off-the-top-of-his head column. His research and logic, however, are sorely lacking. Tomorrow he'll be dealing with another topic he's thought about for maybe two minutes, hoping he can fool 'em again. That's his job. He does it well enough to keep doing it. He also knows the puberty litmus test, though clever, is patently absurd. ("Wait, I think I see something that wasn't there yesterday!") And if he thinks 16-year-old Shawn Johnson (she'd be glad to show you her birth certificate) is an undernourished waif, he's living on another planet. If Shawn's high school had a girls football team, I have no doubt she could play middle linebacker, even at 4-9, and lead the league in tackles.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Bonnie, USA — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:07:45 GMT

If I were a competing gymnast capable of achieving gold, watching "children" who I knew were of illegal age, receiving scores that did not merit the skills, I would be bothered by that, and it would affect my performance. And it is not just the Americans.. The Russian woman's floor exercise routine was flawless and she received a sub-standard score while the little butterflies made obvious errors and got excellent ratings..Russians got robbed. The judges must have had too much smog affecting their eyesight.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Eric Chou, Los Angeles, CA — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:30:46 GMT

To all the people discussing the Chinese age controversy, I just want to say that this article has almost no relation to it. The author simply mentioned the controversy as a starting point to discuss the overall health of young gymnasts. So if you want to scream at each other and beat your chests, please take it somewhere else.

Anyways, thanks for the informative post Mike. It's interesting to see the extent that people are willing to take in order to perform in such a prestigious sport.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Lewis Phey — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:39:36 GMT

I do agree with the author. The rules of the Games should be set in place such that girls are not questioned and are respected when they win medals. By having such a rule on the puberty and the body-fat ration, I feel that it will take out lots of inquisitions into the athlete's age and will also deter other coaches from admitting underage athletes into the Games.

The Olympic Games have always been a respected platform where almost all if not all athletes dream an aspire to perform in. As supporters of the Games, we also want to witness record breaking moments and moments that change the world's history, and hence I do feel that the Olympic Games can be used as an opportunity to stop child abuse and unite the world as one as we show our support and spur the athletes on to greater heights.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Steve, Chicago — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:47:06 GMT

The training almost any top athelete goes through is going to be borderline abusive. I can't even imagine living under the regimen that most of them think of as "normal".

I don't believe for a second that the Chinese gymnasts were 16. Passports are proof? Those passports that the Chinese government gives them? Something about foxes and henhouses would be appropriate here. But you know what? I don't care.

What's worse is that gymnastics is in the Olympics at all. All the events that are judged need to be thrown out. Gymnastics, diving, equestrian, and synchronized swimming in the summer Olympics, ice skating in the winter, they all need to be shown the door. Anything that relies upon a subjective judgment cannot be considered a sport.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Hansolo, New York — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 12:50:02 GMT

Nonsense.. If they are 16 (which so far seems they are), then they should keep the medals, otherwise give up.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Leo Kyme — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:47:29 GMT

This is the sensationalist American news media at work once again. They couldn't get anywhere with the photo of the Spanish basketball team making slant eyes, which the Chinese media deemed as not newsworthy.
Why was there only praise for the 14-year-old British diver? Why doesn't the age limit apply for all competitions? Why not change the age limit for all competitions to 18 or 21 and ban minors altogether? While we're at it, let's go back to ancient Greek times where only men were allowed to compete and they wore no clothes.
What a bunch of whining losers. Maybe Americans have been losing in gymnastics because no gymnast can understand Bela's instructions? A large percentage of our kids are overweight and our 16-year-olds dress like they're headed for the whorehouse.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Helen, LA — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:52:59 GMT

I had doubt about the chinese girls age before. I still can not say about He Kexin, but for Jiang Yuyuan (she was one of the three that were questioned), I saw a video on youtube, you can search it in youtube, the name is:
Dream Weaver Beijing 2008
The video has 9 parts, it featured the preparation of Beijing game, from building "Bird Nest", anti-terrorist training, to athletes selection and training. It included the selection and training process of chinese female gymnasts. It showed the selection started as early as 2003, they set up a camp to include young and age-fit girl from all over China. (age-fit means they would turn 16 in 2008). In the later part of the 1st video, Jiang Yuyuan was featured with several other girls. They were asked how old they were, their reply ranged from 11 to 13. Jiang said she was 12. So if she was 12 then, then she should be 17 now. It’s highly doubted that she would lie at that time, since they didn’t even know if she would be selected. Jiang and Deng Linin were continue featured in the 9 videos, you can see young Jiang grew up a little bit through the years, and little Deng seemed not grow at all. Deng looked very young and small at the team competition night. I doubted about her before, but after looked at these videos, it seemed that she just didn’t grow through the years, might due to Mike’s theory, not enough calorie intakes.
Unfortunately, the videos are in Chinese, but by looking at the pictures, you can still see that those little girls were trained very hard, so I think the age controversy, at least to Jiang and Deng are very unfair. They could be just looked young, remember, in general, Chinese teenage girls do look younger than American teenage girls.
I submitted two comments on Friday, but unfortunately, it didn’t show up at all. I just want people to know some more stories about those girls in the controversy. Hopefully this one can show up, and more people can see these two girls’ stories. Otherwise, it’s unfair to these two.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Ivar Nelson — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:18:24 GMT

If you think about it, the Chinese with 1.3 billion people should have won at least 4 times the number of medals as the "little" USA with 300 million. Conclusion: There is a higher percentage of world-class athletes in the USA than there is in China. Any rational comments?

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Leon, VA — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:07:57 GMT

All of you have to admit, the girls won fair and square. America, please stop whining about the fact that then Chinese can look young and still beat America.Hey,here's a joke to lighten the mood! What's the difference between Americans and a puppy? The puppy stops whining after if GROWS UP.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

PC, Brooklyn, NY — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:18:06 GMT

I just find it ridicious from your post about what seems of some below average weight and height asian women who won the Olympics. One reason why Michael phelps is so good because genetics is on his side, with a wide armspan and short legs. Maybe we should ban him for 'gene doping' I also notice that many African Americans who tends to dominate track and field. Maybe we should ban them too.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Wendy McLean — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:23:20 GMT

I find this article pretty disturbing, you will need to find a solid proof that these girls are under age. Your only proof is that these girls are physically tiny and undeveloped. Are you a moron? How can you compare Asians vs. european / americans?? Keep in mind that America is the fatest nation in the world, of course your children will look like they are 20 when they are only 10, give me a break. This whole thing sounds like some sour grapes to me, the looser cries the loudest.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

BigMike5 — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:40:26 GMT

Don't want to beat a dead horse here. First let me say, I don't give a rat's rear about how many medals anyone won. That is a joke, given some of the ridiculous events that they now have in the Olympics, and the many splits within the various groupings for races and team events, etc. So I could care less if China or Spain or anyone else won an event. I hoped to see an American be competitive and not choke, but getting a Gold, who cares. And I lived for years in Asian cultures in Korea, and San Francisco where I could observe differences in cultures, stature, etc. Having said that, I don't think there is any way on earth that a couple of the Chinese girls made the age requirement. But like I said, I could care less about that, or the fact that there is "home cooking" judging that seems to come to every country hosting the games, usually in gymnastics, ice skating, diving, etc., the events where no one crosses a finish line, hits a bullseye, etc., to an objective result. In this Olympiad I only saw one or two outlandish scoring situations. One, Johnson did the best Balance Beam program I have ever seen, bar none, and one judge gave her an 8.5. What the heck was that person doing when they should have been watching her. That was in the Team event as I recall, but never a waver, or balance check, nothing but a pure 10 routine of some of the hardest moves one could invent. She was pretty good too in the individual event [which I think she won], but nothing close to as good as that first one. Troubling to me on the record keeping is the story that these young Chinese girls were all listed in consecutive years in rosters at one age, but then in 2007 the ages all got changed. Could the Gov't have made an error that was corrected? Maybe. I would give them the benefit of the doubt on it. Anyway, the facilities that they constructed were fabulous, and the people of China deserve accolades for the manner in which everything was conducted from start to finish. I was impressed with the professionalism and warmth in which they handled everything.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Todd Van Wilderhaven — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:06:26 GMT

WOW thats distgusting what they do to those poor girls. i never realised it was that bad!!

nice website its really helpful

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

John Tole — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:07:05 GMT

If you want to actually know what the real answer is then wait 4 years and see if these same girls compete in the olympics again. If they are saying they are 16 now then by all means they should not be changing drastically in terms of going through puberty by the time the next olympics are around since by their fact these girls have or are in the midst of going through that.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Nationalists will side with any kind of bs. — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:34:40 GMT

For all you idiots from China saying "have you been to china, what do you know?" I lived in China for 7 years and taught high school for 3 of them. All I have to say to you is keep lying to yourself if it makes you feel good. I NEVER taught a girl that looked as sick as these so called 16 year olds. NO they don't "pass" for 16, even to Chinese eyes. Get out of your nationalistic crap. Maybe starving peasant children whose families have been forced off their land so that some local official could build a car dealership might look as skinny and underdeveloped as these girls.

In gymnastics, it's physical age that really matters

Liz, Queensland Australia — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:29:02 GMT

Has anyone considered the gymnastics code of points... the code of points that decides Olympic gold that rewards high difficultly (and therefore high risk) routines. Moves that take a lot out of the body and the learning of which is what drives the 'hard' training regimes. If the way gymnastics was judged was different then wouldn't the way gymnasts needed to train be different too? One must look at the prize first. Everyone is aiming for a gold medal - how do you get that - have a gold medal winning routine and how do you do that? Train as hard as it takes to get the points and skills to get that... so it comes down to the code of points and judging really... because that's what is driving all gymnasts to do what they do... make sense?

The Chinese gymnasts train at least 6-8 hours 6 days a week I think. Nastia Luikin trains 7 hours a day (?5 or 6 days a week)... there doesn't seem much different in the time the girls are putting in. Shawn trains 4 hours a day and that's considered - 'wow, different' and 'not much' for an elite gymnast by the USA media.

The stakes do seem a little higher for the Chinese gymnasts because many of them are using their pay for their accomplishments to help families out of 'poor' situations (according to what I've read) and that's quite a bit of pressure when you're that age (or younger as most of these girls start with the national team at about 12).

Also National coach Lu shanzhen (?spelling) was recently saying how he opposes really hard training of young athletes and how one has to be careful of injury and not letting gymnasts end up with chronic injuries while they are still so young (mentioned 8-10 yr olds). Note: He is Cheng Fei's coach, the most decorated female chinese gymnast to date - (despite her olympic performance), so it doesn't seem that they are completely uncaring.